Guest: Veronica Molitor

Welcome to today’s delicious episode where Veronica Molitor, Owner & Chief Executive Chocolatier of Umber Chocolates, pulls up a chair at my kitchen table to talk about how she started her own chocolate business, despite being the one member of her family who didn’t really care for chocolate!

Veronica also chats about being from Texas but loving the snow and cold, the benefits of having the gift of gab, that box of stuff that goes in the cabinets above the fridge through every move, and how we all owe her husband Adam a big thank you for nudging her to pursue her dream job. 

Get cozy!

Find Umber Chocolates on Instagram / Threads: @umberchocolatespgh

Find Umber Chocolates on Facebook: \umberchocolatespgh

Intro riff by Dale Lytle (concert husband).

All content edited (I use that term very loosely) by Karen Shaak.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This week's At My Kitchen Table Small Business Spotlight shines on Umber Chocolates. Umber Chocolates is a Pittsburgh-based female and minority-owned company that creates handcrafted luxury chocolates. HP's is a hand painted, edible work of art filled with flavors inspired by books, flavor trends, travels, and imagination. They're almost too pretty to eat, but also too delicious not to. Visit the Umber Chocolates website at www.umberchocolates.com to place an order. I promise you, teabags, you will not regret it. They are amazing chocolates, great as a gift, or if you're just trying to treat yourself. Welcome to today's delicious episode where Veronica Molotore, owner and chief executive chocolateier of Umber Chocolates, pulls up a chair at my kitchen table to talk about how she started her own chocolate business despite being the one member of her family who didn't really care for chocolate. Veronica also chats about being from Texas but loving the snow and cold, the benefits of having the gift of Gab, that box of stuff that goes in the cabinets above the fridge through every move, and how we all owe her husband Adam a big thank you for nudging her to pursue her dream job. Get cozy. So you have all of that and now joined a book club. Yes. She'd be squeezing that in somewhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Well, I normally do a couple online book clubs like through Instagram and stuff like that. So that are like genre specific. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

So nice. Yeah. Um, well, I'm super excited to have you here and chatting with me today. Could you just before we get started, share a little bit about yourself? Just give yourself a nice little intro.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Yeah. So I am Veronica Molator. I am the owner of Umber Chocolates. I'm also a big time reader, but we'll get into that maybe later. Um, as far as Umber chocolates, so Umber chocolates, I hand paint these handcrafted, so very exclusive. Um very like individualized chocolates. So they're all hand painted, so they're all a little bit different, but then I also do flavors. So it's not just your basic white milk and dark. You also have like seasonal flavors, desserts, drinks, and we'll kind of talk about that too, because I love working with different people on those kinds of projects. But yeah, so that's basically what I do. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Well, thank you. Yeah, but you didn't like come from chocolateering, right? Like, no, no, no. Can we talk a little bit about let's talk a little bit about where you're from because we I know we talk a lot here about like Pittsburgh and and you you're not from Pittsburgh. No, you grew up totally somewhere else.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Yeah, so I'm actually from Texas and I grew up in Houston, so big multicultural city, and then was there until sixth grade, and then we moved to the middle of nowhere in like Texas Hill Country. So how far outside of Houston? It's about an hour and a half. Okay, it's actually almost an hour and a half from like Houston, Austin, and San Antonio, so it's like very central, but also like you're driving 30 minutes to the nearest Walmart kind of thing. Yeah, tiny towns. Yes. So I moved there for high school, and yeah, I did theater, but also like every sport because it's small school, so they're like, Yeah, you can join all of them because we just need enough people for a team. Which is like hilarious to think about when that's not what your experience is. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like I think for people that go to big schools, they're expecting like, oh, like you're a band person or you always like did tennis or whatever it is. And I'm like, I played tennis, golf, cheerleading. Yeah, uh, I was in NHS, I was on like all these different, like every single thing. I did theater, um, I was in FFA. So like I did all of the things every activity. Yeah. I mean, even like for golf, like the only reason I did golf for three years is because they were like, we need one more person for a team. Yeah. And it was like the whole gym was silent, you know, all 40 of us girls in high school. And so, like, nobody says anything. And they're like, You get two days off of school and you'll get a nice tan. I was like, Me, I need a tan. So that's literally like why I did it, yeah, my sophomore year. And then I was like, why not continue? And so now people are like, You play golf. And I'm like, I know how to play golf.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

It would be hilarious though, if you had become like the Tiger Woods, yeah, and that was your backstory. It's like, well, two days off of school and I wanted a tan. I just wanted a tan. I just love that so much.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

So I graduated, it was me and like 16 other kids in my class. Okay. I think my sister had one of the biggest grades, um, and she's like six years younger than me. So six years later, they had a really big class of like 22 kids. Oh my god. So wow, wow, yeah. So like everybody like very much knows each other, very small town feels. Yeah, but it was nice because it's almost like going to a private school because you get the attention of like that one-on-one with teachers. I mean, I took calculus and it was like me, two other kids, and the teacher.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

So did you like it better than we you know, when you were in Houston? Did you when did you move? Because it's like kind of a pivotal sort of time, I think, in in development, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah. So we moved after middle school for me. So I was going into high school, my brother's going to middle school, my sister's going to second grade. Yeah. And so, like, they were like, now is the best time. And for me, I just like lost my mind. I was, I mean, I was also a very like angsty, nobody understands me. Don't look at me, child. Yes. Like, that was me as a teen. In fact, I look back on photos and I'm like, oh gosh, you could like see it in my face, like, go away.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

I'm repelling people.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Exactly. But I think for so for that, like my sister moved in first day of school. I mean, we're going from a big city where even if you don't know everybody, like everybody's like kind of from like the same mixed cultural background. Going from that to like the middle of Norway country, where it is like these people have known each other forever. Yes. You know, I think when I got there, I was the only person that hadn't been there since second grade.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Going into ninth grade. Yep. And so I think that was difficult for me. My sister, her first day of school, she was like, it was so great. Everybody wanted to be my friend. My brother was like, Yeah, it was great. Like everybody was talking to me. And for me, I was like, they pretended I didn't exist. And then on the second day, they were like, I feel like you've been here forever. And I was like, What is happening? It's so surreal, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

It's funny when we had talked originally, it was one of the things that I found so highly relatable. Outside of the fact that you are this insane, voracious reader, I am too. You love to write, I also do as well. But the fact that that was sort of the time frame where you moved, and the same thing happened to me. I was going into eighth grade, and so moved at the very tail end of middle school into this very small, much larger than what you're talking about. It was still a big school district. It was just in a very at the time considered a very rural area. And all of those kids had gone to school with each other, most of them since kindergarten. But I was the new person, and I was the only other new person. There was one who came before me two years prior, and she was the only one for literally years. So it was very much like that of like uh nobody was gonna be friends immediately with me. And it I was very much like an outsider and looked upon that way. So and angsty. Yeah, it's I mean, it's an angsty time, middle school, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:25

So yeah, and I think also in Texas, it's very, especially Houston, Texas, there's a lot more Hispanics, and I'm Hispanic. And so going from that to an area that is like mostly just German Czech heritage, like that's what the background in that area is. Really? Yeah, okay. It's great, great food, sure. Um, which I get to enjoy here too, which is awesome. But yeah, so it was just very different, and like being one of the few Hispanic Latinas, like, and people asking questions that it wasn't so much like it wasn't so many questions that were like offensive, but just like, I don't know, can you tell me? So it was nice to kind of like be able to introduce that aspect in a non-judgmental way. Cause I've always been like, yeah, ask me anything. But yeah, it was very different. School was something that was very easy for me. I think that's why I was able to do all the sports. So I think when it came to picking colleges, it was kind of more like, I don't know, which vibe do I like? Yeah, and so visiting the schools, I really like Texas AM. Just like as soon as I was there, people are smiling, like people are saying hi, and they have their thing where like if you say like howdy, everybody says howdy back, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

It's awesome. Only in Texas, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

So even now, like when someone's like, Oh, howdy, I'm like, Did you go to Texas AM? And they're like, No, it's just a thing I say.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

I'm like, oh, okay, just me done. You went to AM and you went for writing, right? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Yeah, so actually, so because everything at school was easy, I was like, Well, I don't really like any of these things. That's right. And so I went to AM for engineering. So I was mechanical engineering when I started two years later. I switched to English. I didn't even tell my parents to switch majors. I was like, I want to prove that I can do this. Got like always an English major, and then I was like, hey, I switched majors and they lost their minds. Oh wow. They were like, What? I was like, but I'm paying for my own college, so it's fine, right? Like I pay my own tuition. This is my choice. Oh, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

I didn't even realize that. Okay, so you made it. That's a big switch.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah, oh, for sure. I think when it came to the point where like everybody's excited, like next semester we get to build a robot, and I was like, I'll write the paper. Yeah. And that was like the time where I was like, I'm just not excited about this part. Yeah. And so for me, English was always like the most interesting, and I think the conversations that come from books, from literature, and then just how it ties into everything. Yeah. Like English isn't like you're gonna become a teacher, and that's it, but really just like language is so core to everything.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Really is. Although funny, I do think a lot of people have that mentality. Like, how are you ever going to make a living? Yeah, like just writing, if you're not writing a book or if you're not, you know, a teacher, just teaching English.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

I think Texas AM did a good job because in one of your last years as an English major, you have to take a course where every week you're interviewing or talking to, or have like a guest lecture kind of thing that is from a different profession within the English department of like school of thought, or like got an English degree and here's what I did with it. And that was kind of one of those things that like really opened up like, oh wow, because for me, I was like, I want English, but I don't know what I'm gonna do with it. Right. Um so yeah, that was a pretty cool class to take.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Okay. But you were kind of in your own real life prior to college, you were already writing. Can you share a little bit about continued writing in college and as a professional?

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Yeah, for sure. So I mean, as a kid, I still have the notebooks now of like trying to do a daily life, like daily diary that I would keep up with like for maybe a week. And then I'm like, instead, let's lose this journal to write a book. And so I would like kind of start a book and get a couple chapters in, and then I'd like have the rest of the outline, and then it'd be like, here's a different one. So I think as a kid, I always enjoyed writing, definitely enjoyed reading. My parents had to like set, like, there's a time and place for reading Veronica. And like, even now, I'm like, I know we're here for this podcast, but I did bring my Kindle just in case. Just in case, you know, I'm that person. But yeah, so I always enjoyed reading and writing, and I think even kind of in college, helping people with their papers, because there's a lot of people that like they write it and they're like, is this good? And I'm like, Oh, sweetie, let's just walk through it together. Like, even my brother and sister when they're in college, yeah, and they're like, Can you read my paper? Or like they're scared to ask me because they're like, it just comes back with so much red. And I'm like, Well, sorry. I'm like, I'm doing this because I love you. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

This hurts me more than it's hurting you.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Yeah, and I think kind of when I was at college, that creative side really showed when I uh worked at the chocolate shop too. And so that was something not a lot of writing, but I will say definitely on the creative side. And I loved like working with people, talking with people, and that really helped me there as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

So yeah. And did you you also did some writing for your church? Is that yes?

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah, so that was technically after college.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

So in that like between looking for a job, that's when I worked at a church. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yeah. Okay, gotcha. So let's just sort of chat about your first foray into chocolates. So we'll get we'll get to church after.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Because that was something that started for you sort of by accident, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:53

You just you got a job in college. By accident, yeah. So when I was a kid, I I was the only person in my family that didn't love chocolate. Yeah. I'm like, I want the gummy worms, I want the like the the taffy. Yeah, you know, I want like the swap, the sour candies. Yeah. While the rest of my family like love chocolate, always have chocolate at the house, and I'm like, yeah, that's fine, whatever. But like, where's the Skittles? Yeah. Um, so I think when I was looking for jobs and I saw this job, one, they paid more than minimum wage. And then two, I was like, I don't even like chocolate. This will be fine. Yeah. I'm not gonna want to just eat everything in here. And then I actually started and I was like, I love chocolate. I just have expensive taste. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

I kind of love that realization for you too, where it's like chocolate's not the problem. Yeah, bad chocolate's the problem.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

I was like, oh, this is real chocolate and I really like it.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah. And did you do that all through college or was it just for a short period of time?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

No, so I started my freshman year. So I had scholarships and I was like, I'm good. And then realization said in the like, I won't have scholarships forever, you know. And so I did get a job, and so first I was just one working at the front desk, like just sales kind of thing. And then from there, then you start working with the actual like chocolates itself. So you kind of start on, okay, let's make ganache and like learn how that works, learn what the ratios are. That's something that's time consuming but easy to train since we have all the recipes and stuff. Right. And then from that, you'll learn how to color and then you learn how to temper chocolate. So you start with just capping, so like putting the bottoms on chocolates. Okay. And then you start actually making the shells. So that's when like you have the color mold, you pour the chocolate in, you dump it out, and then you're left with just that thin shell. Yeah. So yeah. So I stayed there, and I mean, even during that time, I feel like I was a pseudo-manager there. So like helping with the hiring, the firing, and just like in the summer when things are slow, I was able to go to my boss and be like, Hey, I want to make these flavors. Can I do it? And he's like, sure, we're slow, why not? Yeah. And then I'm like, Can I post them on our social media? He's like, Go for it. So I think in that there was still a little bit of writing, still like working with people, even that were other restaurants in the area to kind of get things together. Yeah. And I just found that I like really loved it.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah. It's interesting hearing you talk about it from that perspective, a little bit differently, even than when we did like our background chat, is you very much in that role kind of were in your own little lab. It almost worked out to be like an extension of school in a way. And it also gave you visibility into every piece of owning a small business.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I think even the owner, a very transparent person. Yeah. Like, and he's great, like, even to this day, Mitch is awesome. And it was something that he very much like gave me the freedom to kind of like play around, but also like, here are the rules that of chocolate, basically. Yeah. And then even on the business side, you know, like, all right, let's do invoicing together, let's figure out how that works. All right, let's look at, you know, writing checks. How does like our monthly um expenses we're gonna order? What does that look like? So I think there was a lot of information that later on when I opened my own business, I already had. And then he was also like, if you have any questions ever, you let me know.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

That's really incredible. Yeah. Because I know probably not everybody is like that. Yeah. So how how long did you work there before you ended up graduating and getting your first, we'll call it like your big girl job?

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yeah. So I was there for about four years. So I graduated and continued working, and then I moved back home and was working for my dad part-time, for the church part-time, and then on the weekends part-time, I was still working at the chocolate shop. Okay. So it was a drive, but like my friends still lived there. So I was like, I can get away from my parents, I can see my friends, make some money, still do chocolates. Um, so I did all three of those for a couple months, and then when I finally left there, I was like, all right, let's get serious, let's buckle down and look for a job. I didn't get this English degree for nothing. Right. So yeah, so I I did that, and it was at that point that I was at the church. Okay. So kind of jumping into that, yeah. I know at the church they had their bulletin, it'd been the same bulletin, like layout since I don't even know, since I got there. Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Which since Jesus was born.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Since Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Yeah. I I think with that, I was like, can I redo the design? And then I started writing for one of like a little section there as well. So I not only am I like writing in like formatting, did a redesign, and then I was like, you guys aren't even online. Which they had their website, but it was really old. So I was like, let's get new websites, let's make sure we know how to update them, and then getting them on social media as well, so that because there can be a lot of good information in the bulletin, but if it's not getting to people, then you know, right, it's almost a disservice. Sure. So at the very least, like a link to your your bulletin. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

All the details, right? Okay, so that was sort of more where your writing and social media prowess started to really come to fruition.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Yeah, I'd say so. And I think it was something that again, I just kind of fell into that helped me later on as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

It I find that fascinating. I talked to a lot of different people from a lot of different industries, you know, on the podcast. And so many of like our pivotal moments in hindsight, it's like when you're looking at it in the rear view, you're like, there was as much hard work that went into it as dumb luck that, you know, it's just timing, right? So I I find that really fascinating too. Yeah, yeah. I think talking about timing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

My first big girl job.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah, which we're just getting ready to jump into.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Yeah, okay. Let's talk about it. Yeah. When I was in Texas, I am working on this bulletin, and I was like, I would love to work for a company that makes bulletins like for all these churches. At my church, we did our own, but most people they contract out, and so it goes to them, they put it together and then send it back to the church and like printed and everything. Yeah. And so I was like, I want to work there. I was like, Yes, English degree, right? So I was uh looking at a couple different companies, and one of them they had an Austin office. So I was like, all right, reached out there and they were like, We don't have a spot here, but you probably want to check in with our Michigan office. And I was like, Okay. And at that point, it kind of had me thinking, like, I don't need to stay here. I don't have a relationship, I just finished college, like, why not? And I grew up always traveling, and so I feel comfortable in other places. Like, I'm not scared to leave my house. And I have family all over the United States as well. So I was like, okay, like let's do it, let's let's expand that job search. So then I started to apply to places only outside of Texas. Yeah. And the place um that I was talking about before that had an office in Michigan, they got back to me. And so they hired me in as um a salesperson for their software that I had worked on at the church. And I was like, I don't know how to do sales, I think. I don't know, was I doing it? Like um, and so I was like very nervous about it, but I was like, I'll figure it out. And I was like, I've worked this with the software enough, you know? Yeah, I'll read their guides, right? Share. Fake it till you make it. Exactly. Yeah. So I was like, sure, let's do it. And as so got the job. As I'm driving up, my car is packed full of stuff. My sister's with me, my parents in our separate vehicle with the rest of my stuff. And we're driving up to Michigan. And I kid you not, as soon as we leave like that Texas border, I get a call from my boss, um, my future boss, current boss, new boss. And he tells me he's like, Hey Veronica, how's it going? I'm like, Great, I'm on my way up there. Now, in hindsight, he's probably like, oh gosh. Yes. Um he's like, so I just had some like two of my developers quit um in the web department, and I was going through your resume, and I think he'd be a great fit um to not take on the developing side, but the training side. And so moving over content and then training the um church staff on how to edit their website. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, oh, thank goodness, I don't know what to do with sales. So like training and like websites that I could do. And so I was like, Yeah, that sounds great. I would love to do that. He's like, again, hindsight, he's like, Oh, thank goodness. Right. So, yeah, so it kind of worked out. So, hired is one thing before I even started, it got switched into the web department. It's wild, yeah. And honestly, I loved it. I feel like I thrived, I loved it, it was enjoyable, and and I think starting with just like copy pasting content and then saying, like, what if we did more? Let's strategize. Yeah. Um, because I, although my brain is super chaotic, love order. People tell me all the time, they're like, You're so organized. I'm like, it's because my brain is chaos. Yes. I make it look of order. Yeah. Yeah. Even right now, I'm like, I have my papers in front of me. So I know. Yeah. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

So that's really, really awesome. Like just again, the it's the blind look of you had the he had developers quit, and suddenly now you're not not faced with, oh great, now I have to figure out sales. Yeah, exactly. Flying by the seat of my pants here and just moving. It's funny, I was thinking about it in terms of like moving to the other side of the country, but that's normally not how we think about it. But that's exactly what you were doing. You were just moving to the to the north, like from the very south of the country. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

That's a long way. Everybody joked. They were like, so you went from like eight months of summer to eight months of winter. And I'm like, yes, and I love it. I finally get to remember. My boots. Are you kidding me? Those jackets that I only wore twice a year.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Wow. So that was like that was good for you. You were like, Oh yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

And then my dad is from outside of Chicago. He's from Elgin. And so we'd gone up a couple times. We've been to New York and like different places.

SPEAKER_05 23:13

And I was like, I kind of, I kind of kind of like snow. I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

And I don't think that's actually changed. I still like snow. Even when it's like gray and snowy and gross.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

I'm like, ah, it's so quiet. Look, it's a deer. Like it's perfect for angst, by the way. When it's gray and cold and reading. And read, yes. Get cozy. Yes. No, that totally makes sense. That tracks for me.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

You're like, wait a minute. I know.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yep. Dang, that works. So let's just hit like put a pin in the work stuff for a second and talk a little bit about um community. Because I do end up talking about community on this podcast a lot, whether it's about friendships or business communities or whatever. What was that like? I mean, clearly you were excited for the move. You said you did not have like fear around the move because you're pretty well traveled. But did you have any difficulty creating or finding sort of your people in Michigan?

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Yeah, I think when you move to New City, at this point, I could say at any age. Yes. Um it's not easy. And I found for myself, I had one friend who later became my boyfriend at the time, like there in Michigan, who lived about an hour away. But and then I had a friend in Detroit on the other side. So I was in Grand Rapids, so she's a couple hours away as well. And I think what I realized I had to do was just do the things I like to do and talk to people while I'm there. I think I've always had like the gift of gab, you know. Sure. I am able to kind of like, hey, you know, and just kind of say, look, we have this in common. We either the music that we like or the place that we are, yeah, or whatever it is, and just kind of start from there. Yeah. Um, so I think it's not easy, but definitely have to like do things by yourself and get out there.

SPEAKER_05 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

And I think finding work friends is always nice as well. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

I think there's also that not just the gift of gab, which I we we both have that.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

What do you mean? I know.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

But I think you almost have to have a curiosity about people, like you have to come from that place of actually wanting to know about the people, the place, like you know, where you're living and moving in the world, I think is so I feel like you have that as well. It's not just, oh, I could talk to anybody.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Yeah. Oh, oh, for sure. I mean, I I think there's a lot of there's so many things to know about so many people. Right. You know, and I think, like you said, like that curiosity of well, this is what you do, you know. A lot of people ask, like, so what do you do? And I'm like, for work or for fun. Right. You know, and I'm like, that's even like when I ask people, I'm like, so what do you do for fun? What do you like to do? What's your passion? Because you know, your work isn't always your passion. That's true. Which doesn't necessarily have to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

No, no, but that's fair. Yeah. Did you like Grand Rapids? I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

I found the city to be like so vibrant, so young, so many breweries, and so many breweries. I was like, I'm not really a beer drinker. Right. And then afterwards, I was like, I think I kind of like beer. Yeah. When you try and fuck ones. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Exactly. So yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I had a client there and I would visit Grand Rapids occasionally. And it's not like I was there a ton of times, but had definitely been there enough times that I experienced, you know, a couple of the breweries, some really great restaurants. There was something very um similar in feel, I would say. It's Pittsburgh, even because it's it's the river. It's the river. I'm attracted to the river towns. I like Louisville, Kentucky too. I think there's a trend, you know. Yes. It's also size, right? Like Grand Rapids is almost like a very big town. And Pittsburgh as a city, I think has a a similar feel, maybe a little bit bigger, but yeah, it's one of those things that like I love Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I I love Pittsburgh, and I'm not just saying that. Yeah. Um, but I think for for that, it's like it's got your Apple, it's got your IKEA, yeah. You know, so it's big, it's big enough to have those things, right? But it doesn't seal feel so big that you are like lost in the shuffle, lost in the people. Yeah. And I think Grand Rapids, it didn't have an IKEA, you know. Right, right, right. But it was big enough that it kind of had everything that you're looking for in terms of like culture, art, different like food. I love food. Yep. So like different stuff in that variety. Um, concerts still came to us, which at the time, like I was still going to a lot of concerts. Sure. And so it kind of had like everything, but still had like that small town feel, so that it wasn't too big, or you know, you could always play that like six degrees of separation, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

So that and that whole like sense of not getting lost. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Your family is like super tight-knit too. Does that inform how you view community and how you view finding friendships and finding like things that you like to do? Um, maybe a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

I mean, we're definitely close. Like right now, all of my family is down in Texas at my parents' house celebrating my brother's birthday. Aww. Um, so happy birthday, Eddie. Um but so we are very close, and not just like me and my cousins, it's like my mom's cousins' kids. Yeah. And then once they get married and their kids, like now the other whole side of the family is a part of our family. Yeah. Like Easter celebrations and my family are huge. We have like a hundred people. There's Easter egg, confetti egg fights, and it gets crazy. Yeah. People in bunny suits, like, we go all out. Yeah. But I think with that, or even kind of like thinking about my childhood and how I had so many cousins, it's kind of the same thing because when you have so many cousins, you still have like your friends. And my mom was very much you never leave out anybody. Like, if there's a cousin or somebody who is like the person on the out, like you go and talk to them and you invite them. And if the other people don't want to talk with them, then now you're their friend. Yeah. And I think as like a kid, I was like, but I don't want to talk to them. You know. But I think it's normal. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, but these are my friends. But I think as I grew up, I realized that like being friend with friends with the other person is so gratifying. And it's like not normally something that's like a warranted exclusion. Right. So I think even like in friendship and trying to find friends, even within my my family and like my cousins, like looking for the other person that's like on the aisle and like, hey, how are you? And being able to start that conversation and make them feel like they're a part of this and not just there. Yeah. And I think that's like the same thing of like when you go to somewhere by yourself. Like even now, if I go somewhere and I see someone by themselves, I'm like, hey, so what brought you here? Because I've been that other person that's by themselves looking for a friend. Sure. So so back to work stuff now.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Yeah. Because that's how you get here during COVID. You were asked to make a pretty big move. Can you talk about like what led up to that? Where were you in your professional life at that point? Yes. And sort of what led up to your COVID move.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

So I was still working at the Bulletin Company in Michigan. I was in the web department, and by that time I was project manager. So kind of, and like one of the team leads as well for the web department. So I was working a lot with a lot more of like bigger clients. So either Catholic diocese or big like nonprofit organizations. And one of them came to me, actually came directly to me through a recommendation of a friend of a friend of a friend kind of thing. Yeah. Who was like, Oh, you're looking for a website, you have to talk to Veronica. Which I was like, Oh, I'm honored. But in talking with her, I was like, Well, I don't think we're right for your timeline and what you're looking for. You know, if you want to do this in stages, we can. And then the conversation just kind of shifted to just, I mean, just conversation, you know, and talking. And she was like, Oh, you're an English major, you know. I'm like, Yeah, I did professional writing, editing, and again, ding, English major. Yep. Um, points for English major. She was like, Oh, well, can you help us with our magazine? I'm adding in a couple of articles if you could look through them or if you have any like design ideas, since I was was working with the design team here in like web. And I was like, Yeah, sure. So kind of started there, and I talked with my boss, and he was like, Yeah, you can work with them, like contract, and because then I wasn't working on website, it was like on the magazine, and then leading into their social media and email as well, email marketing.

SPEAKER_05 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Um, so working with them there, and that started 2019, and so I'd been working with them for a little bit, and then 2020, I actually was working from home for the bulletin company and was in Texas. So I went down to Texas for like five months, and my whole family was where you wrote out there.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Wrote out COVID down there.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was nice because they live on 40 acres, so it's like very like like in a little bubble that like COVID almost doesn't exist because you're with your family that you are all the time and you can go outside. It's just when you go into the city, right? You know, yeah. Yeah, it was very much like an interesting time and like a little bubble.

SPEAKER_05 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

And almost I think what I needed to kind of like, okay, here's where you are. Do you want to continue? Because I think in my career path, it was, you know, okay, I'm like rising, but is this what I want? I'm not really dealing with the client directly, like with talking with people anymore. I'm not training people, we have someone else to do that.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

And I was like, I don't know if I like this.

SPEAKER_05 32:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

So when my contract job was like, hey, we're moving our office from Virginia to Pittsburgh. Would you be interested in that move with us? You know, and we would bring you on full time for communications. And for me, I was like, I don't know. And I really like at first I was like, this is great. And then I was like, but is it? Yeah. So not so much about the move. My cousin lived in Pittsburgh. I'd been there once and I was like, love it. Yeah. I mean, I moved to like Michigan after being there once, right? Um, I think yeah, even like applied to places in like Utah, and I was like, if I get the job, science, I'm going, like, why not? Yeah. So I I think it wasn't so much the move as much as is this what I want to do, and kind of like sure go down this path.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Because it does diverge, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:36

From where yeah, from where you're sure, yeah. And it was something that like working with a hundred plus people in an organization to working with four people, yeah. You know, so like I don't have those built-in friends in this new city. Um, I'm mostly gonna be working by myself and like online, and so just kind of like navigating that, but I was like, you know what, I want to do this. Like, I saw this as like a great opportunity, and it has been, it still continues to be. And so I said yes, yeah. And here you are. Yeah, here I am. I'm in Pittsburgh, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

So all throughout your travels, though, you like you weren't revisiting chocolate, right, during any of that time, but you kind of you carried it with you, right? Yeah, talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Yes, I did have a box. Um, so when I left the chocolate shop, he was like, Don't stop making chocolates. And I was like, I won't, and then I did. Um but he gave me like here's some of the color so you can like paint your own molds. He gave me a mold, so um like the chocolate mold. And so I had that, and I had like a box, and I think he gave me chocolate as well, so that I could like make a couple by myself. Yeah, but I moved like six times in five years or or four years, something like that. And every time I was just like, well, I'm just gonna move this, and it literally just went with me from like above, like you know, the space above your fridge. Yes, that's where it went in every apartment, whether it's a cabinet or just on top of the fridge every time. And I thought about it, and every once in a while I would, I'm like, man, I'm really craving some chocolate, and I would just make a ganache. Yeah. And like, I'm not a big, like I said, I'm not a huge chocolate person. So I'm like, I eat like two spoonfuls of the ganache, and I'm like, I'm good. Yeah, that was enough for me. But I would I definitely like kept doing making ganache, but it was like basic, or I'm like, you know, let's throw in some an alcohol into it or something, you know, just for fun. But I I never really went back to coloring them, like doing the full process until I was in Pittsburgh. Yeah. So what prompted that? How did you come back to it? So I'm married to this guy named Adam. And I was in Pittsburgh for a month, and my friends and my cousins, again, my girl cousins um were like, you need to start dating, you're single, like, how are you gonna meet anybody? It's COVID, you have to get on the apps. Oh gosh. Yeah, because I'm not an app person, like I've never been an app person. I'm like, I do the things I like to do, and I talk to people there, and so I already know that whoever I'm talking to or making a connection with, we have things in common. Right. Like, I don't want to read everything about you. I love reading, but not those. Right. Not that kind of reading. I want to find you in the wild. I don't want to have to look. I want to feel very like organic. Yeah. So my cousins are recommending the apps, and I'm like, ugh, okay, fine. And they're like, but do hinge, like you're looking for something more serious. And I was like, okay, fine. So I download the app, and as a girl, it is very overwhelming.

unknown 36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Like for someone who's never been on the apps, for someone who doesn't have notifications on, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Talk a little bit about that because I that was not a thing for me. I mean, I uh obviously I'm quite a bit older than you are, and so everything was in the wild back in my day because we didn't have apps.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

So yeah, so it's just um the way Hinge works is you either have a prompt or a photo, and they have to reply to that prompt or photo. Like my favorite kind of cheese is blank, you know? Okay, and so you put in your cheese or a fun fact about me or a fun fact that maybe you don't know, and you can share like a silly fun fact, and that's a conversation starter. Um, or you can show photos like uh, do you know where this is? And that was actually the one that I had.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Um, so I during COVID with my girl cousins, yay, we were supposed to go to London, and obviously that didn't happen. Right. And so we're like, well, we have this voucher. Um I was like, well, I've always wanted to go to Utah, Utah. So I mentioned that earlier that I applied to jobs there, didn't get one. And I was like, I just want to go, like it looks beautiful, so I want to go. And I was like, it's COVID, so we can like stay in our own place, like it doesn't have to be a hotel. We're doing hiking. And so we went down there and we went to Zion National Park. Yeah, I did Angel's Landing, which was closed until that morning. Oh wow! And so that was like, we're on the bus, and they're like, Y'all do an Angels Landing? And I was like, I thought it was closed. They're like, they opened it this morning, and I was like, You want to do it? And my cousins are like, uh, sure. So that we ended up doing, I was like, We were not prepared, and we're like so anxious, gripping and like sweating, like holding on to the rails. Like we got to the top, took a picture, we're like, Let's go. I didn't talk the whole way down because we're like in our own heads about like you know, falling off a cliff. Sure. But but we did it.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

You always feel like such an amazing sense of accomplishment when you have completed something that has just made your anxiety level go through the roof. Yeah, you feel awesome in the aftermath of it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

I mean, even like afterwards, it's like this is one of the top five, like most dangerous. And I was like, oh, interesting. Didn't know that before I did it. Good thing. Yeah, exactly. So I had a photo for when I was up there on Angel's Landing, and I used that as my like, guess where I am. Yeah, and that was the one that he responded to and was like, This is Angel's Landing, right? Mount Zion or Zion National Park. And I was like, Yes, it is. And that was our conversation, which is hilarious because full circle, I was there during COVID because it was a good time to like not be around people. Right. His eldest brother was supposed to get married there that year. Wow, when basically like the week before I was there. Yeah. And so he was supposed to get married there, but they had to cancel their wedding. Yep. And so that's why he knew because he was like, Oh, we're planning to be there. And then in 2024, they finally got married. They did do it in Zion.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

Really?

SPEAKER_03 39:38

Yeah. And so to be able to go to that with him, and at that point we're engaged. And so I was like, this is so cool, like full circle. Right? Yeah. I love it. Wow. Um, but yeah, so he responds to the prompt. I and so did like a Julian other people, but he was like the only one that like actually engaged in conversation. There was a couple other people. I told him I was like, You were one of the two people that I got numbers or like gave out my number to.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

And then we went on a date, and I was like, I went on one date and found my match. He was like, I was on the apps for years. Like he's like, Yeah, I have no idea how bad it is out there. And kind of like what you were saying, like growing up in a world where you meet organically. For him, he was like, I didn't want to use the apps, and then I realized it's New Year's Eve, and he's sitting at the bar, and there's all these like single women around him, and he's like trying to start conversations and they're all on their app swiping. Yeah. And he's like, That's when I realized, like, it's not gonna happen in real life. I have to be on an app. Yeah. And sad but true. Yeah.

unknown 40:38

I guess.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

You know, I try not to hold judgment for that at all because it's not a world that I was familiar with, and I know tons of people who do it and who have successfully found matches, and obviously, I mean you're sitting right across from me. Um, but it is there's something that even as you were talking about prompts or photos, and I can feel my own anxiety like rising, like, oh, I'm so glad that that was not the experience that that I you know had to choose to become part of. Yeah. Um but again, I think for for a certain generation, it's like normal, it's just completely normal.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Yeah, and and I think I think Adam had the right idea. He told me he was like, you know, my friends always told me like you want to get the connection with who you're talking to and then get off the app as soon as you can. Right. He's like, have that in person so that you're not wasting time, you're not going back and forth because there's only so much you can text about without really knowing someone. Yeah, you can't really get their tone or inflection. Yep, that makes total sense. Yeah, and so yeah, so we met and um I mean, do you want me to get into the whole story? That's entirely up to whatever you're comfortable talking about. You know I love it. I always love telling the story. So, all right, he gets my number and or at first we're like still in the app, and I think he I gave him my number, but we're still like talking through the app. And so he was like, Oh, do you want to go out on Saturday? And at this time, I was going to be going to Virginia to help move the office to Pittsburgh. So going over there helping with the moving trucks and everything. But I was like, you know what? That starts on Monday. I want to go to DC. I'd been there before, but I wanted to do more of the museums, the zoo and stuff. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go earlier in the weekend as long as it's not raining. And so I told him, I was like, I might be in DC, but if it rains there, then I'll be here. And so yeah, I'd love to. And he was like, okay, cool, just let me know. Now it rains. And me, I turned off notifications for the app. And so I am on my bed, literally like legs kicking, like laying on my belly, like la la la la la. And I get a text from him, and he's like, Hey, so did you end up going to DC? And I like stop like color drains from the base, and I'm just like, oh dear, I forgot about this man. And so he always says he's like, This was a pity date. I was like, it wasn't a pity date. Right. I'm like, it's not that I didn't want to go out with you, it's that I forgot about you. Which is definitely better. I'm gonna thank you. That's all I needed to hear for all these years. Um, but yeah. But you hadn't even really met him yet, so that's yeah, that's fair and fine. Yeah, so I I immediately I was like, oh my gosh, I was like, yeah, I'm in town. What do you want to do? Like, oh geez. Um, and so he gave me three options, and I won't get too deep into them. But so the first option was to go to dinner, and I was like, no, again, for me, I'm like, I listen to the murder podcasts. I have cousins who have been on terrible dates. I don't know what's gonna happen. And so I'm like, well, I just don't really want to go to dinner. And like I said, I was like, I like food. So what if I get an appetizer, order my dish, and then I'm like, this man is terrible, but I love. This food. Right. So you know I'm gonna like I'm not leaving this food. Exactly. And so I was like, I don't know. And then he was like, Well, you know, the second option is to go to a park and like walk around and talk. And I was like, Well, I'm definitely getting murdered there. Right. Like, I don't know the city, like, I don't know where he's taking me. We're gonna go to a park and I'm just never gonna come back. Like, that's right. And then the third option was go to a brewery. And I was like, you know what? That allows us like one drink, multiple drinks, like we can stay as long as you want, or not. Yeah. And so we ended up going to a brewery, and everything is going great. The conversation was just so easy, and it was like so nice to talk to someone that kind of like just got it. I feel like we're on the same page, like music, we kind of like the same things, and um, growing up like a certain way, but yeah, so I I think with that conversation, it was going so well, and then I was like, ooh, I told everybody I would check in at two hours. And so I go to the bathroom, and I'm like, all right, replying to people like telling my roommate, nope, I'm good. You don't have to stage an intervention or like come and pick me up, like something's wrong. Cause I told her, and I sent a photo to everybody too. Again, like I listen to the podcast, yep, and I'm like, uh, here's what I'm wearing. You know, this is my last scene in outfit. Smart. Here's where we're gonna do it. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, you just never know. And especially for me, I'm like, this is my first date on the app. This is scary. Yeah, this is scary. Yep. Um, kind of is so, yeah, baby's first. Um exactly. Baby's first hinge date. Yeah, exactly. Uh and so I'm texting everybody and I'm like, it's going great, he's great, we're fine, everything's good. And then I realized, I was like, oh my gosh, I've been in here for a while. He probably thinks I'm pooping. I need to get back out there. Because, you know, yeah, what else do you do in the bathroom for a long time? That's just exactly right. And so I left my jacket on the bench. Again, we're on separate sides of a picnic table. So I left my jacket on my side of the bench. And meanwhile, he's sitting there, and I guess my jacket slipped off the bench. And so he was like, I could have sworn she left her jacket. Oh my gosh, did she take it with her? She's been gone for so long. Did she leave? And he's like, What went wrong? It was going so well. I thought we were really connecting. And he's like, I guess I'll just finish my beer. And so he's sitting there. This poor guy. Yeah. Sadly drinking beer, you know. And I come back and he's like, Oh my gosh, she didn't leave. And you know, for me, I'm like, Well, at least I'm not pooping. Right. But then also I come back and I see my jackets on the floor, and I'm like, red flag. He didn't even pick up my jacket. Like, this poor guy doesn't even know. He thinks I'm gone. Yes. So we sat down, kept talking.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

It's like such a comedy of errors.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Yeah. Which is funny because it takes like months for you to like know about these things. Yes. Because then you're like, Do you remember during our first date? And I'm like, oh my gosh. I was worried you thought I was poopy. Like, I thought you were gone, you know. Yeah. I just I love that story so much.

unknown 47:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

And it was, it was just a really good uh first date. We kept talking until like the music stopped, lights came on, and they asked us to please leave so that the last employee can go home. And we're like, oh my gosh, so sorry. But not not sorry at all. No, in fact, he so he walks me into my car. Um, and then, you know, he's like, let me know when you get home. And I'm like, okay. So I get home and I text him, like, hey, I'm home safe. And he's like, Yep, just got home too. And he said, Is it crazy if I want to see you again tomorrow? And I said, Is it even crazier if I like agree?

SPEAKER_05 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Um, or like, I also want to see you. And so we made plans for the next day to have our second date. He had golf in the morning with his friends and he does a Sunday family dinner like at his parents' house every Sunday. So he was like, I have this time slot. And I was like, Let's do it. So we went to another brewery. Uh, we don't like IPAs. That's hilarious. Like generally, like citrusy, super hopsy, fruity IPAs. And so we go there, and that's like all they have. And they're like, Well, let's talk at least. So it was just really, it was just really great. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then since I was in Virginia for the next week, we just talked on the phone. And I think both of us had just gone out of like long relationships where we were like ready to get married and then realized like this is not the person. Yeah. So we just had like very serious conversations of like, you know, what do you need out of a relationship? What can you offer? Uh, what have you learned from your last relationship? And for both of us, it was like communication.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Communication, especially when you don't want to, and communication about like your needs and stuff like that. And so I think that's something like even to this day we work on, yeah, but we're very like transparent about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

What's really interesting is it goes back to that part of the earlier conversation about timing. It's like when you're in that space and you both are at the same time, it's like everything moves a little bit faster because you can get deeper a little bit faster. Because now you've gone through like your starter long-term relationships and you know, and arriving at the conclusion of like, yeah, like I want long-term and I want, you know, the partnership and the companionship and the stability, but not with that person. So now I have to like figure out, you know, how do I get to that quickly, right? And having both been in that situation at the same time, like the timing is really awesome.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Oh, yeah. I mean, like I said, I went on like one day.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

So like it was great for me. That app.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

We can delete the app. Delete my account, delete the app.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

That's incredible. So and he's been sort of your your biggest, not even supporter, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Like he's sort of the maybe you need to be making chocolates guy, right? Yeah. So I think so. In that first week of conversation of those deep conversations, you always ask the question, you know, like, if you could do anything, money wasn't an issue, what would you do? And I was like, that's so easy, like instant answer. Yeah. I am making chocolates because I loved the creativity, I love doing the flavors, I love selling them and like seeing people's faces when they try a chocolate for the first time. If they've never seen chocolates like this before, like I just love every aspect of it. And I think even like growing up, my dad had a small business and my mom's a CPA. And so, like, I know how to work QuickBooks. Like, yeah, you know, I was like, I was like at 11, I'm loving hearing that dood, you know, sound. And so I was like, I was born for this. And like my dad, he's has a small business. And literally, when I was like, he the day he quit his job and was like, I'm gonna do this full time, was a day that my mom was like, I'm pregnant, go back and get your job. And it was his boss who was like, No, I believe you can do this, yeah, and this is the time. And so I and that's like the life I was born into, right? And so for me, I was like, I was built for this, but also when Adam brought it up and was like, you should do it for real, I was like, ha ha, good one. Right. Um, and so something that I think for him was like always in like the like, but I saw your passion for it. Like, even like right now, I'm talking, I'm like, oh, did I get louder? Like, you know, but it was something that like I just I enjoy so much um on so many levels. And so I think he saw that and he was like, We should do that. And I was like, that's crazy. Like, I have a job, I need to get out of debt. And so it was kind of this whole conversation of, well, if it's the debt, then let's figure out how to do that.

SPEAKER_05 51:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

And if it's the concern of like how it affects relationships in your life, I mean, like, I've seen how you know, say goodbye to your weekends, like say goodbye to like vacations are gonna be filled with phone calls and stuff like that, or you have to like close for that week that you're gone. And and so seeing that like struggle, I was like, it really scared me. Sure. And I was like, I don't know. But I think you know, at this point, we're a year into our relationship when he kind of like keeps bringing it up. And we went down to Texas and I was like, We have to meet Mitch, my chocolate boss, Mitch, you know, and so he's like, Okay, so we're talking, and he's like, How you been? Good, you know, da-da-da-da. Um, and he's like, So what are you up to? And he's like, Well, Veronica's thinking about opening, you know, starting her own chocolate business. And I looked at him so fast, I was like, No, I'm not. Why would you even say that? Like, uh, I did not prep the waters for this, right? And my my boss was just instantly so supportive, and he was like, I'm an idiot, I figured it out, so I know you can too. You should do it. That's so funny. And I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about it. And then, you know, afterwards we get in the car and I'm like, what the heck was that? All right, and he's like, I think you should, like, you you really enjoy it. And and during that time, I had kind of been thinking about it as well. So, like, let's just make chocolates are fun. Like, do I still enjoy it? Right. I still remember how to do this, like can I do it kind of thing? And and so just making some chocolates for like my family and things like that, and realizing that I do still really love it. And so I think it was March of 2022, that's when we filed our Umber Chocolates LLC name. Okay, and then it wasn't until much later, so it's literally December of 2023 that we start selling chocolates. But for me, I think I just wanted to make sure we're doing everything right. Like I want to do everything by the books, I wanted to be almost out of like personal debt so that if we had to put money into the business, it's there, it's not detrimental to myself. Right. And so there was just like a lot to I was like, well, then I need to get a different job so that I have more time, like outside of more normal, like I'm working my normal work hours and not extended hours. Right. And then I'm also making more so that I can get out of debt quicker. So that was like a whole thing as well. Sure, that's a whole journey, right? But yeah, so I think he really like pushed me in. I don't think I would have done it without him, to be honest. And and he did pick the Umber name. So where did that come from? Well, it was his job to think of. I was like, You want me to start a business? You'd think of the name. I love that. But even Division of Duties, yeah. And he is he is a um, he's a partner in the business as well, right? Yeah, and so he would basically make a list of names and read them out loud, and I would say, like, yes, no, maybe. And it was a lot of no's to be honest. Sure. Um, I feel like it's something that I'm so picky. It's like naming a baby. Yes. You're like, you're stuck with this for life. Yeah. And so there was a lot of things, like even like with Umber in this list of names, like you have to think, like, how are people gonna make fun of this? Yeah, how are people gonna make fun of my child? Right. And I'm like, but it's the Dumber chocolates. And I was like, or is it Umber One chocolates? Like, you know, and so it was like things like that. Like, so every name we're going through, I'm like, how can I make fun of it? But also, how's it a good thing? Like for marketing and um different stuff like that. So I think even going through like the list, there was a lot of names, and I was like, I don't want it to be me because quite honestly, I want this chocolate business to grow beyond me. And I do want to get to the point that I'm like teaching classes and stuff like that, right because I I do enjoy teaching. And I can't wait for you to do it.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Yeah, that's so exciting.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

Yeah, and so like at that point, like it's not Veronica's chocolates, it would be your chocolates, right? And so, like, kind of just having something that was like short, generic, available on social media and websites, right? Um, and just different stuff like that. So he had this whole list, and we're going through synonyms of brown at this point, like we've gone through all these other things, confections, sweets, and all of that. Um, and so he's going through synonyms of brown, and one of them is umber for like you know, sienna umber, burnt umber. It's a place in Italy, it is the color of their soil, yes. So for Umbria. And for me, I was like, one, I love that. And I was like, it's something that's shorts, but it's unique. Um, I love that it has like literal roots in something, right? And then also I was like, it literally means brown. And if you've seen our chocolates, they are not brown. No, so I was like, I love the juxtaposition of basically my company is called brown chocolates, right? And they're not no, they're not, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

They're beautifully colored in so many different ways, not brown, to be honest. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

So for me, I was like, that's hilarious, yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

I love that, and I will tell you. So this is my little sidebar. I didn't actually get a chance to mention this when we chatted. I assumed, not assumed, almost hoped a little bit, because of your affinity with reading and books. I was like, oh, I wonder if she read The Magicians, and I wonder if this has anything to do with the Magicians trilogy. I have a couple of friends who are gonna be like, oh my god, Karen, no, you did not just mention the magicians, but are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_03 56:53

I'm over here, I'm like, well, now I need to read that. I know.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Lev Grossman, it's an amazing trilogy. They actually made it into a show. I also loved the show. I've seen the show. It's a beautiful yes, you'll love the books. A little bit different, but you'll love the books. Okay, that's it. Anyway, Ember Number, the the Yeah, anyway. So I was like, oh, how cool would that be if that's where that came from? And then you were like, no, it just means brown and is like, well, that makes a lot of sense. That's fine too.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

I wish, I mean, honestly, uh at that time, I think like when I left college, you're doing a lot of reading that like you don't really want to do. Yeah. Looking at you, Paradise Lost. Um and so I mean, come on, yes. And so I think after that, I was like, I just don't want to read for a bit. And so it wasn't until 2023, like halfway through. Yeah, um, maybe almost even 2024, that my coworker, when we're on a flight to do like go to a job site, I was like, oh, my phone's about to die, I can't watch anything. And she was like, I have an extra book if you want to read it. Yeah. And I'm a pretty quick reader, so I like started and finished the book on the flight. Yep. And I was like, wow, that's a good one. Here you go. She was like, What? Yes. But I I think as like part of that, I was like, I really enjoyed that. And it was literally just like a thriller about a girls' weekend gone wrong. Yep. And I was like, wow, I should read again. You know, yeah, I should take those boxes, boxes of books out of storage. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

So okay, it takes you about a year, year and a half-ish to launch. You launched at a really great time. Oh my gosh. Um, but it wasn't even planned, right? You were like waiting for some final things to come through.

SPEAKER_03 58:35

Yeah. So we have our it's the same kitchen that we use now. So it's a certified kitchen out in Ambridge at Merchant Coffee. And shout out. Um so we have our kitchen out there, but they still have to go through like the paperwork process of filing everything. They come out, they do the visits, they check everything. Inspection. Um, so for the health department for PA, Pennsylvania. Um we all say it's I know. I just saw this video about that, but anyway. Um so I think for that it was like just like on a waiting game, and we're like, we really wanted to launch for holidays, like, hopefully we can. We're like, but we really don't know. And I didn't want to start really any prep work because if I had made chocolates and then we can't, then what am I doing with all these chocolates? Um I'm just not that nice. No, but I I think it was something, um, yeah, the timing was perfect. It was literally the day after Thanksgiving. And he called because we'd been asking, like, hey, any update? Do you have any idea? And he was like, it just got approved. Your paperwork's in the mail, you can start now. And so literally, I mean, you know, the weekend after Thanksgiving, we're like in the kitchen right away. Yeah. And I mean, we still have full-time jobs at this point, right? Um, so we're working our normal 40-hour work week and then working an extra 30 hours in the kitchen to make all these chocolates. And I'd been talking about it on social media and like it's coming, it's coming. We don't know when, but it's coming. Get excited. And then when we were like, it's official, you know, over that weekend, I was like, website ready, this ready. Okay, everything is like prepped and ready. Yeah. And we'd done like test shipping chocolates. It's a nice time of the year to kind of like test to because it's a little bit cooler. But sent chocolate boxes to friends in Florida and Texas and California and um Michigan, like all these different places to kind of see how that goes. So yeah, when we said it's time, people really just showed up and were super supportive. And we had a goal and we hit it. So we made another goal and we hit that, and we said, okay, fine, what is our dream goal? And then we hit that literally on December 30th.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:43

And so crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

Yeah, it was just insane and so good in so many different ways. And and I think because we started at that time, and December is truly like the best time for chocolates. Yeah. Um, people are buying for multiple people and stuff like that. So, I mean, we we it kind of like set us up for the next couple months so that we were like, okay, now we can really try to do this. And it's been great ever since.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

I love it, I love it. So, what were some of the things that you ended up getting into like post that holiday? You have this really unique model. You don't have a storefront, right? You you have the kitchen that you're working in, but you don't have a shop.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

No, so I don't have a physical location. Right now, I'm like, I just don't need the overhead. Sure. Yeah, you know, it's it's a lot, and it's it's typically a multiple year long commitment. Right. And I think especially when I first started, I was like, we'll just try it out. Because again, I'm definitely someone who's like on the more cautious side, and I was like, if it works, that's great, but if it doesn't, I still have a job, that's good. And in July of 2024, that's when I quit and started doing this full time. And so for that, it was like kind of scary. So I do sell online and then I have pickup locations all around the city with more coming soon. Yeah, that's exciting. But I I think as like a part of that, I was I was like, all right, I'm out of debt, so I don't really have a lot of bills. And like I I think now is the time. So I made that switch and I like I remember telling my boss, and I was like, I'm so nervous. And this is a time where they're like laying people off. Yeah, they're like, we're gonna keep you, and then I'm like, I feel even more bad. Sure. So I'm like, I need to tell you I'm like, wait, wait, like, I need to tell you something. And so when I talked to my boss there, and I was like, Hey, um, I'm gonna be putting in my two weeks notice, or I think it was like a month, and I gave him like a month notice. Yeah, and I think with that, I wouldn't even knew like I was like, well, if today's my last day, then that's okay too. But I was like, here's my month's notice, and and she was like, Oh my gosh, is there anything we can do? And I was like, I'm gonna go full time into Umber chocolates. Yeah. And she was like, So there's nothing we can do. And I was like, I don't think so. And she was like, Oh, I am so sad that you're leaving, but I'm so happy for you. Yeah, and I think having like that kind of reaction from a lot of people was just really validating because I think these are people who have seen my work, have seen the chocolates. I've brought them in. I'm like, I need taste testers for this, right, you know, peach habanero. It's too hot, you know. And so I they'd kind of been a part of that process. So it was like they were happy for me. Um, yeah, and and even the owner of that company, Inamark, they kind of told me they were like, you know, maybe we'll work together in the future. And they, you know, they moved forward with that deal. Like that Christmas. So my first Christmas of doing this full time, they placed an order to send out to all of their like marketing departments for all their clients. Yeah. And it was just like, one, it's a huge order. Yes. Right. And two, it put us in front of a lot of different people and key companies across the the nation. And and it kind of also like tested like logistics-wise, like, were we prepared for this? And it's nice because like we kind of got to get almost like that factory. Like, I had a Google form for my friends, and I'm like, sign up for a shift. Yeah. And I'm like, I need people making boxes, like just like building the shipping boxes, putting labels on there, like packaging, like, so it was just so funny. And then, of course, like a crazy time of chocolate making, but yeah, so it was just like super chaotic. Yeah. Um, but it's been good, it's been really good. I think people they see the chocolates, they try the chocolates, and like now when we have events, people are like, I'm here for you. It wasn't that I just happened to be right at this place and you're here too. Right. Like now they're like seeking this out, and it's just it feels good, it feels cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Yeah, it has to feel cool. Like it's such an like it's such an amazing accomplishment, number one, but it's also sort of that again, it's more validation of I did this thing and I was cautious about it. Like definitely the child of a CPA and a small business owner because you knew all the pitfalls and you really tried to plan for, and that, but it's worked out in such a really positive way. So the where I ended up meeting you through EJ was at a pop-up event at Woolly Rare Books. And so can you talk a little bit about how you started partnering with authors?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

Yes. Okay. So I think I originally just started when I was doing pop-ups, it was just like the people that I already knew that also ran small businesses. And then I think even through Blythe Books, she was huge. For me, I met her because I was like, Oh, you're buying books. I have books that I want to sell to you. Yeah. And then we just started chatting, you know, and she was like, Oh, I'm opening a used bookstore. And I was like, Oh, you are. I like used books, you know. And then I was like, I'm also a chocolatier. And she was like, Oh my gosh. And she's so great about like lifting up other small businesses. So I was like, All right, we're doing a pop up. There and then just kind of like going to other bookstores and talking with the owners and saying what I do. And you know, Pittsburgh is such a incredible place that they're like, of course, like let's be besties. How can we raise each other up? Um, and it's very much that like neighbor feel, yes, you know, even though like we're over here in this part of town and I live on on in the north hills or the south hills, you know, whatever it is. So that's really awesome. But also, I think that kind of like led into me looking for that community in small business, and where I found it the most and the easiest was threads.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

So I joined Instagram's threads, like I think it was like the first month they started, and I was like, we'll make an account from her. Like, I don't know what I'm doing, like right, make all the things, and so I just started kind of like talking there, and so I was like, Oh, you're from Pittsburgh, and then so it kind of groups me in with Pittsburgh, and I'm such a reader that on there I'm like, Yeah, I'm a chocolatier, but I'm also a human.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

Um, and so there I'm like really just talking with other small businesses, talking with other people, and I think in talking with bookstores and book people, it kind of got me in that like author's realm.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:12

Um, and so then I'm connecting with authors, and I think it was Lainey Davis first. So she's a Pittsburgh local author. And that was my first like bookish collaboration with an author. Okay. Before that, I had made like hobby chocolates for um Pages Turned Book Club and Bakery Square. Okay. So with uh Cecily, so she invited me as a small business, again, small businesses raising up other small businesses. And for their book, I was like, I'm gonna make a chocolate that matches the book cover. And I was like, that was actually so fun because I really liked the book. So I was like, yeah, I'll do it. And just even like the response, people were like, This is so cool, you know. And so in talking with Lainey, that conversation kind of came about there as well. And I was like, we could make chocolates for your for your book that's coming out, and she was like, Let's do it. Yeah, literally met at a Duncan and like went through everything, right? And so it was just that kind of like organic out of that community, and then so I worked with her on like the first book in that series and the second book and sold them. And then now other authors are like, hey, so I saw you do this book thing, and I now that I have the photos and have worked with someone, have a better idea of how the process goes, and so now I have like the confidence to go to other authors and say, like, hey, um, like I was kind of sharing earlier with you for this that um I'm an arc reader, so advanced, advanced reader, copy reader, yes, of books. So before they're published, the publishers will send out books and say, like, hey, can you read a review? What do people think of this? Kind of get an idea of how people feel about the book. And so I'm one of those readers. And so there's been books that I have read that are directly from authors, I'm an arc reader. They're like, hey, looking for people, and I'm like, me, pick me. Yeah. And um, and I've read the book and I'm like, I love this book. And so I reach out to the author. I'm like, I loved your book. Do you want to work together? And so there was one I just did, Nikki Belgrave, and that was like a romantic suspense book. And that went great.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:15

Um, I have one that I'm actually shipping out on Monday. So that one is going out that's with E.F. Watson, another like um romanticy book. And so it's just been really fun to like see how those kind of come together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

Can you share for the the tea bags how the process works for you? Like you're creating custom chocolates for a book that is being released. And so talk about how you choose flavors and how you choose how you're going to hand paint them. What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:47

Yeah. So for most of these, I've not read the book going in.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:52

So I think it's only been like one, maybe two that I've read the book before and then reach out to them. Normally it's kind of like, let's work on this. And my book is still in editing. You know? Yeah. And so I'm like, all right. So typically I ask for a couple of things. So talk, tell me about your book. Tell me about the characters. What are their personalities like? And then what are their like character like archetypes? So I know, like, for some of them, like, are they a cinnamon roll? Well, that's easy. Are they spicy? Okay. You know, or is there a food or drink that they're constantly like mentioning in the book? Like in the Nikki Belgrave book. For hers, she always gets this coffee. Like he buys her this coffee, and it's this strawberry hazelnut coffee. And so I was like, well, that has to be a flavor. Obviously. And you're saying he's a cinnamon roll main, you know, male main character. Well, then we're doing a cinnamon roll. Right. You know, so it's just stuff like that. And then as far as the color, I normally try to pick things like out of the cover. So it kind of has like similar, you know, you get those like aesthetics. Um, but also there's like the book that's coming out on Monday, you know, that one, it's about like a cave, they're in this Onyx cave and it's like glistening. So we have one chocolate that is black, but it has little shimmer in it. Yeah. And so it's like just black, but it's shimmery. And so that's like the flavor that goes along with it. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:11

I just think that that is so cool. It was when I when I first saw the chocolates, I was like, oh, okay, because I'm a sucker for chocolate, so I'm gonna buy chocolates. But then I was looking at them and I was like, Jesus, they're like beautiful. Yeah, like they really are they're they really are very, very cool looking. It's almost like you don't want to eat them. But I think the first time I saw you at Wooly Bear and I bought them, I think I ate two of them on the way home. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to do this. It's really pretty, but I'm gonna eat these chocolates. I gotta, I gotta make sure they taste good too. And the flavors that I've had so far have just been really amazing. Yeah. Um, how do you come up with your you were telling me you have like a dream flavor list or like or flavor list? How do you come up with some of the flavors?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

Um, okay, so some of them are like the obvious ones, they've been done a million times. Um, some of them are with alcohols. So if I go to a bar and I love looking left or contact cocktail list, yeah, and there's some I'm like taking a picture because I'm like, I've never heard of this combination. What an interesting combination. Or I'm like, I bet this would taste great in a milk chocolate. And I think because I've worked with chocolate for so long, I already kind of have like an idea of like, I'm gonna guess this is gonna go well with the milk. Yeah. Or this is definitely a white. And people are like, oh white, and I'm like, yeah, you need something, it's too sour, you gotta soften it, you know. Yeah. Or like lean into the bitterness with dark. So yeah, it's something that I love finding like inspiration like that. But then also, like my cousin works a lot with like herbs and stuff like that are more like in nature, and she's like, Have you tried this with this? And I'm like, Oh, I never thought about that. Yeah, so there's just so much, I mean, even like desserts, even looking at trends, like what are what are people putting in their coffee? Right. Because okay, like last year, cookie butter was a big thing. Yeah, so I was like, gotta make a cookie butter chocolate, yeah. And it was delicious, and you know, wing it over great. So there's just a lot of different stuff, and and we do have that dream chocolate list. So every time we have an idea for a list of a chocolate to make, like flavor-wise, it goes on this list. Yeah. And I think I looked at it and it's at like 250. And of those, we've done almost a hundred of them. So I mean, you know, it's a good fair bit. Yeah. And and I think with having the main chocolates, we do have nine flavors that are available all year round. Okay. And then we normally do another nine that are seasonal. So that's kind of where I get to like play with things or like with books. So I'm like, Yeah, let's try this flavor, sure. Yeah. I just did an event last week with an author, and for her book, she was like, Well, he drinks whiskey. And I was like, Oh, we have to do a whiskey chocolate, it's so good. Yeah, not much goes better with a whiskey or a bourbon, that is for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

It was delicious, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:50

So it's just kind of things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

Yeah, that's so cool. So, speaking of that, you also have done some partnership with a local brewer, like more recently. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. How does that come about? And how do you go about actually putting together the pairings? Because this requires some taste testing.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:12

Yes. Oh, for sure. There's a couple of different things, I guess. So there is putting their alcohol in chocolate, and then there is pairings. Okay. And there's a very different process for both. But they're both fun. So if we're putting their alcohol in a chocolate, then that is something that we're literally just bringing the chips. So like our chocolate chips over white our milk are dark and are two darks that we have. And so I'm literally just putting a chip in my mouth, letting it melt a little bit, taking a little sip of the beer, wine, liquor, whatever it is, and then kind of the letting them blend like on my tongue. And then I literally swish around like mouthwash. Yeah. I'm like, I need to hit every part of my mouth and know that it's still good. Yeah. So yeah, there's been some, there's been some again, you're like red wine, dark chocolate. It was terrible. Really? Yeah. And I was like, but it goes great with the white chocolate. Okay. You know, I'm not gonna question it. Nope. And so there's really like surprises like that. And especially when we get into like what we did most recently that was a true pairing. So it was with Low Love, and they had here's you know, we have six beers currently. Let's pick uh let's pick four of them, and we'll pair two chocolates with each. So we did a nine-piece box, and so it was two chocolates per the four beers, and then the last chocolate had their beer in that chocolate. Okay. So that was like the infused one. For these other ones, they were like, Yeah, just bring bring whatever you have. And I'm like, I can make so many ganaches. You want like our whole spring line? Do you want extras? Like, I'm like, what do we need here? That's not how any of this works. Exactly. I was like, this is gonna be so hard, but it's fine. So I made small sample sizes of all our ganaches, or like took some of the ganaches that we had on hand, and I just brought them to the event, and we literally had all of our beers and all of the chocolates and a bajillion spoons, and we're like, just taste the ganache and then taste the beer like together, and then we all wrote down our notes. So it was nice because they did have like their basically like beer connoisseur, yeah, their um, their cicerone, yeah, I think is what it is. And so he has an idea of like what the palate of the beer is, if it leans a certain way, and but even for him, like he was like, I didn't think we were gonna put like a white chocolate raspberry with this one. Um, like some of them, you're like, citrus, citrus makes sense, but like which one brought out the Mexican hot chocolate? It made it taste like an horchata, right? You know, and you didn't expect that out of this citrusy pale ale. Right. You know, so it was just really fun to kind of like work with them and um and be surprised and then be able to put that together and present it to other people so they could also be surprised. Yeah. And I think like for me, I was just kind of there, and you know, they pass out the beers and you have your box and every other thing that's labeled, and then they get to like try them. And it was a very relaxed setting, so everybody's kind of having their own conversation, and I'm just kind of like floating around a little bee, and I'm like, so what do you think? You know, so do you like the white chocolate or the dark chocolate with this one? Yeah, and yeah, it was just a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

It sounds like so much fun, yeah. Yeah, I want to be an official chocolate taste tester now for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:22

Yeah, good. I feel like um I when we're trying new ganaches, I am trying the same thing over and over. Yeah, and then I'm like, Adam, like come taste this one. And it gets to a certain point, like people are like, You must eat chocolate all the time. And I'm like, only while testing. Yes. Like otherwise, I'm like, I have a chocolate like maybe once a week. Yeah, maybe. But when you try it like over and over again, then you know, you're like, I'm good for a while. But then every once in a while I go back and I try, I'll smash one of my own chocolates by accident. And I'm like, oh darn, gotta eat it. Oh no. And I try, and I'm just like, man, I'm so good at my job. This is delicious.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

I love that it goes right back to the whole, it's not that I didn't like chocolate. I just really like good chocolate. Exactly. I love it. Um, before we wrap up, talk a little bit about what kinds of events or pairings, or you know, like what are some of the the goals that you have just in the coming year? What are some of the things you're working on?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:23

Yeah, so next later this month, so in like two weeks, um, I'll be at the Rochester Chocolate and Coffee Festival. Okay. Or coffee and chocolate festival. And so that's kind of like my testing things out. And they have one in Pittsburgh later in the year. Okay. But last year we were getting married, and so I was like, I can't agree to that yet. Right. And so this is kind of like our tester, and then we're gonna do a couple of other ones because they have a couple of events um in different cities. Okay. And so I'm excited to kind of get into like bigger events. Yeah. It's a little scary because I'm like, what I do with the chocolates that don't sell, or what if I sell out? Like, not that it's a bad thing, but right, you know, so um that's kind of a little bit new for me, but very exciting. Yeah. And then I want to continue doing those pairings. So I think with Lola, that was the first time that we're doing a true pairing like with their beers. And I just found it to be so fun. Yeah. Um, and doing that on that kind of like small, intimate scale gave me ideas on how to expand it, how to work with other people, what we need to do for the next process. Right. Yeah. And then in terms of authors, I I love hearing from authors. I mean, I know even I think there's like a couple of authors that I'm just gonna be making like chocolates for fun, like doing a design because just because I'm like, well, I read this book and I think it'll be cool. So it might not be something that's necessarily for sale for all of them, but just like a little creative experiment for myself. Sure. And then seeing how that kind of like broadens the horizon to work with more authors in the future. And yeah, yeah, it's just a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

Yeah, I know. You your passion for it totally comes through, by the way. I think it's really incredible as I've listened to your story at how it comes through for other people and like they they see you, they see it in you, you know. I'm really glad that Adam pushed you.

unknown 1:20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:21

I'm really glad that he told your former boss, oh, she's thinking about doing this thing. They're really I'm thinking about her doing it. Yeah, I know for sure. Okay, so one of the things that we do at my kitchen table is um with every episode, I ask my guests to share three good things about their week. Uh, rolling seven days is what I like to say. Um, and just yeah, it could be three really big, awesome things, or it could just be like little things you're grateful for this past week.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:46

Um yeah, that's how I like to close out.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:48

So three good things. Three good things. Um, I would say my past event went really well. It was the author's first reading and signing, first Delarasi, her book. And so that was really cool for her, but also cool for me because I'd never done like an intimate setting at a bookstore. It's always been like, I'm here, will you be here? Right, kind of thing. And it just it went really well. It was super cool to kind of like see that um and play into that and be a part of that. And I would say also for the Rochester Coffee and Chocolate Festival, they've asked me to come on TV in Rochester to help promote the event. And I'm you're saying Rochester, New York, okay. New York, okay, yes. Wow. Yeah, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be on TV. So I'm like baby's first podcast, baby's first, baby's first news segment. I love it. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, so that's two things, and then I'd say for the third thing, I am thankful for the sunshine. It's just let's keep it simple. It doesn't even have to be like hot or anything, right? But like it's it's just nice to to see this one. Changes everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:57

Shifts the day, shifts the mindset. Exactly. Yeah, I love it. Those are three amazing things. Thank you so much for doing this. I absolutely have just such an immense amount of fun chatting with you. I and this could definitely have turned into a podcast series, by the way. Like you have lots of little avenues that we could have put down questions for you. Like that could be a whole other podcast. But I do want to say, like, I'm so first of all, just super grateful to have met you. Like, totally, thanks to EJ for introducing us. But also, I just think like Pittsburgh's, I think, lucky to have you, like, lucky to have what you're doing. I'm starting to get a lot more connected to like this fabric in Pittsburgh of small businesses. It feels very much like we are a bunch of small businesses in this massive town. Yeah, this big town city. And it's cool, like this interconnectedness in this network. And I just think you've hit this really niche space that you're expanding out, and it's really cool to see. So I'm just excited to see what comes next. Yeah, me too. Yeah. So thank you for having me.