At My Kitchen Table

Welcome to At My Kitchen Table, a conversational, interview-y podcast where I have a good yap with a guest!

When I was growing up, the kitchen table was the conversation center in a lot of homes. At my grandparents' house, friends and family alike were welcomed with connection as much as with drinks and food. In my parents' house, that tradition continued as my siblings and I would post up and chat with my mom as she cooked or baked or tried to read a book (with much exasperation as we refused to shut up). I found cozy similarity at my friends' homes with their parents, too.

Keeping with tradition, I create a space for everyone who visits my table, where we get to share a little bit of our journeys together - roses, thorns, and stems.

Interested in recording your story with me? Email me at atmykitchentablepod@gmail.com!

All Episodes

At My Kitchen Table

Guest: Melia Myers

May 27, 2026 • Karen Shaak • Season 1 • Episode 38

0:00 | 1:12:55

Every once in a while, I’ll have a topic idea that I’ll float by a potential guest because it’s something I’m curious about and want new perspectives. And sometimes the lesson I learn is that the universe doesn’t care what I want, and instead it gives me a gift.

Today I welcome my niece, Melia Myers, to my kitchen table. My goal was to have a yap about the changes in how we market colleges and the promise of jobs to kids differently now than when I went to college. But her story is far more about college and the future from a Gen Zer who is about to enter her senior year of college amid a volatile job market and big technology disruptions.

She also shares how her anxiety and depression manifested at young ages, how she loves a hot goss session, why she chose a small school not too far from home, and why you couldn’t pay her to go back and do 1st semester freshman year again.

The kids may love to spill tea, but they’re still alright. Get cozy!

This week's small business spotlight is on Tiger Moth Mercantile.

Find Tiger Moth on Instagram: @tigermothmercantile

Order from Tiger Moth at www.tigermothmercantile.com

Intro riff by Dale Lytle (concert husband).

All content edited (I use that term very loosely) by Karen Shaak.

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This week's At My Kitchen Table Small Business Spotlight shines on Tiger Moth Mercantile. Tiger Moth Mercantile partners with over 30 local vendors to offer one-of-a-kind and specialty gifts that are perfect for celebrating everyday moments. From housewarming to holidays to just because Tiger Moth has curated the creative, the delicious, and the whimsical to delight your sensibilities. I highly recommend that my local listeners stop into their Carnegie, Pennsylvania store. The shop is an absolute wonder that flows from table to shelf and from room to room that simply encourages you to explore. Check out their upcoming events on socials at Tiger Moth Mercantile or visit their website at www.tigermothmercantile.com to place an order or find magic at the moth. Every once in a while, I'll have a topic idea that I'll float by a potential guest because it's something I'm curious about and I want new perspectives. And sometimes the lesson I learn is that the universe doesn't care what I want, and instead it gives me a gift. Today I welcome my niece Malia Myers to my kitchen table to have a yap about college and the future from a Gen Zier who is about to enter her senior year of college amid a volatile job market and big technology disruptions. She also shares how her anxiety and depression manifested at young ages, how she loves a hot goth session, why she chose a small school not too far from home, and why you couldn't pay her to go back and do first semester freshman year again. The kids may love to spill tea, but they're still alright. Get cozy.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

And them being like, Do you want to leave? I was like, well, actually, like, no, I don't. Like, could you ask this on a day where I'm like not having a good day? And then I can be like, yes, I get to leave early. But instead, I was like, I'm kind of enjoying myself right now, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

It always works that way. I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

But I was like, I guess I'll take the opportunity because I don't know when it'll come again.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So that's true. And it's also like an hour early on a holiday weekend normally would be awesome, but it's an hour early on a holiday weekend where it's rainy and cold and shitty.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

And so no one's shopping.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

No, no. Everybody's shopping's done for for tomorrow at this point. I'm trying to think if there was anything else about work that I wanted to ask you. Because you've had like some drama, which we're not going to get into. But the drama like settled. Which is I would say yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't talk about the tea.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

I cannot talk about the tea. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Because it's not your tea to tell.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

It's not my tea to tell.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

We don't do that here.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

So I cannot share the tea.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

No. We stick with our own personal tea on this. This is not a this is not a gossip podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Unfortunately not.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

I know. There's a part of me that's like, I don't know, maybe I could start one of those with somebody. I know, right? I know. You know what the problem is? I'm because I'm so anti-drama, like in my own life, I have no hot goss to share.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

I always have hot goss to share.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Fair enough. Maybe I will do the I'll produce your podcast. All right. Before we dive in and have this conversation that you so graciously agreed to have with me, thank you. Uh I would love it if, for the sake of the teabags, you could introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yes. My name is Malia. I am, oh, it feels weird just saying Karen, but I'm Karen's niece. I have a mom and a dad. My mom has been on this podcast before. Two siblings, both younger than me. Let's see. I'm a college student and I go to Elizabethtown College, which is in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. I like to sing, and I'm part of one of the a cappella groups at Elizabethtown, the all-female a cappella group. Right now I just finished up my junior year, so I'm home and I'm just working as a cashier at the local grocery store again.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

And uh yeah, that's about that's that's me. That's you. That is you in a nutshell. That is me. Very nice intro. And so why Malia is chatting with me today, which was just really awesome that she agreed to, because this can sometimes feel a little bit daunting for people who have never recorded for a podcast. But one of the reasons why I wanted to chat with Malia today is because we do tend to hear from a lot of folks from my generation, older millennials. And with some of the changes that are rapidly happening right now in our job market and just with college in general, I thought it'd be really interesting knowing that I have a perspective on what college felt like when I went to school. I have a pretty clear idea of what my kids thought about it because I've had those conversations with them too by the time they went to school. And you're now living in a time where kids who are coming out of school at the same time that you are are facing just massive change.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Change in the job market, changes that are being implemented across education and how we look at accreditation for programs, which really doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of pro programs, but it means a lot as far as like the amount of money you can take out in student loans and things of that nature. And I thought with you getting ready to enter your senior year and you're getting ready to face the job market, that now could be a really interesting time to chat with you about your perspective. Yeah. Let's start by kind of talking a little bit about some background stuff. So what kind of kid were you when you were growing up?

SPEAKER_02 5:30

I was very anxious. I was a very anxious child. I think I I mean I had a really good childhood and I had a lot of fun. I had friends, I had my siblings, but I always struggled with anxiety just around like general stuff, like sports, school, things like that. But I also enjoyed doing other things. Like I always really enjoyed singing. I did three sports growing up basketball, softball, volleyball, which I don't do anymore. But I really enjoyed those. And I I had a lot of fun, but definitely I was on the quieter side, more anxious and not really like extroverted and outspoken.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Okay. I think that's a pretty fair assessment. Did you see yourself as the kind of kid that made friends easily, or did that come harder for you?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

I think it came harder because I've always been a person that like I wait for people to be my friend before I even if I want to be someone's friend, I will sometimes wait for that go-ahead of like, oh, they do want to be my friend, okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Because I'm like kind of scared of it. So I would say overall it came harder, and even like when I was younger, I would say it was kind of the same way where I would just wait for people to be my friend. And it always like worked out because I I ended up having a good group of friends growing up and through high school and c now college, but definitely it was more difficult than easy.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, that makes sense. And I also think, too, to your point about not being super extroverted, I think there's like sort of that push-pull with forming friendships where there's always gonna be very extroverted people that are gonna just like walk right up to you and be like, Do you want to be my friend? Where that's not your go-to position, but you're also like, Yes, I do want to be your friend. Thank you for approaching me because then I didn't have to do that. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, and then what kind of student were you?

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Oh, I think honestly, I was a good student. I feel like I still am. I've always worked really hard. I feel pretty grateful because my mom's always kind of taught me that hard work matters more than grades. Yes. And I feel like that's really helped me throughout college because I get, I would say, pretty good grades now, but I also try to keep in mind that I should be putting in hard work even if the grades don't always come out.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

So I think I've always been pretty a pretty good student. I've struggled in like the subjects like math and things like that, but I would say overall, I was a good student.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

A's and B's, a couple C's here and there. Sure. I do think that that's a really healthy outlook. Like, I know part of the reason why your mom is like that is because we grew up in a household that was extraordinarily grades focused. It was a very results-driven way of looking at school, which I think take can take the joy out of learning and really take the meaning out of knowledge when that is the overall goal. So I think that was a really healthy way for you to for you to have that now and even like understanding that at the age of 20 is like that's pretty pretty massive. So that's very good. At a high level, and to whatever comfort level you have, can you share a little bit about some of the challenges around your anxiety and your depression? You can say as much or as little as you want and share, like if you want to do specific examples, just because I think that foundationally, when we start to talk about the college years, I think that there is like a foundation there leading up to some of the questions and and how you may end up framing some of the answers.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

So I would say, I mean, I've always I've gone through a lot of school changes throughout the years, um, even from like the earliest as as early as third grade when I switched from public school to the Catholic slash private school in our area. And that I honestly don't actually remember being too anxious about that. Okay. I think I remember my first like just being really anxious and really depressed when we sold our house, our first house in Sparta, Lake Hugh. And then I mean we moved in just to a different house in the same town, but for some reason that just like really got to me. And I was so anxious about it and just like really depressed. And I remember that summer we were doing a bunch of family stuff because we moved and we had this pool, and just everyone was over all the time, and I had no desire to be down with anybody. And I was nine years old, yeah, and I just didn't feel like hanging out with anybody, I just wanted to be in my room, and I felt definitely like that created distance between myself and everyone else in my family, but I just like didn't have a desire. And I know I know that those couple years of middle school, so that was fifth, sixth, seventh grade, I would really struggle in the mornings, just being really anxious, like I couldn't finish my breakfast. And there was a couple days here and there where I just felt so sick to my stomach that I couldn't go to school, and not because I didn't have friends or because I was getting bullied or anything, I just had this anxiety that I just didn't I couldn't really put a finger on why it was happening, but I was just anxious. And then I think it got a little bit worse because after eighth grade, when I had already been at this private school for years, made an established friend group, we decided we were gonna switch to the back to the public school I was in from like kindergarten through second grade. Okay, and I saw I was feeling anxious about that because I tried out for the volleyball team. I pushed past a lot of my anxieties and did the things I needed to do. Like tried out for volleyball, I made the team, I made some friends on that team. No nobody really close, but it was still nice kind of to go into that school year knowing a few people. And I knew a few people from when I was a lot younger. And I would say that year went pretty well. I was anxious most days at the beginning, just because it was a new school. I wasn't used to not wearing a uniform, yeah, which was really weird at first. And I think once I started to finally get comfortable and I was I had a solid group of friends. One girl actually, she kind of approached me and she was like, Oh, I remember you from like it was like preschool. Wow. And we um she invited me to sit with her friends, and I was like, Oh, this is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

And so through her, I made like a couple good friends, and I felt really good. I joined the school play, volleyball went really well, and kind of when I was right in the middle of all that, right in the middle of the school play, when I started to really feel like I was I had a good group of friends, I felt connected, I felt like I was actually a part of a school. My parents were like, We're gonna put our house up for sale and move to Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah. This was not even moving to somewhere else in the town.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

In the town. This is like moving to a whole new state. Yeah. And I just didn't know what to do with myself. Because at that point, I remember they said if the house doesn't sell, we won't move. But if it does sell, then we will. And I remember talking to my best friend at the time, and she was like, I just have a feeling like you're not gonna move. And I was like, okay, you're probably right. And then a month after our parents told us that COVID happened. Yeah, and so we went into lockdown, but we still took pictures, put our house up for sale, and all that. So I spent those couple months really struggling just with a lot of anxiety about moving because I really, really did not want to. Because I was very upset at my parents because I felt like I finally just got comfortable at this new school where I was already having a tough time at the beginning, got comfortable, and I I felt like the rug was just being ripped out from under me. Sure. And I think it was June we found out. I knew before Paris told us because I heard them having a conversation. We were actually on chinkate together. Yeah. With on I think it was workation.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

And that's right. Yes. And I knew, I knew, and I was just really, really sad.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

It was a hard summer that summer because I just was like counting down the days until we moved.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah. And you're doing it in the middle of a pandemic where everything was so uncertain anyway. And it's like of all the things to have anxiety about, it's like the last thing that you want to deal with is the fact that now you have this move that you have to do as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Can we go back just for a minute, just with your 20-year-old brain now? Can you look back on that time when you were moving from houses when you moved from Lakeview to Malibu? Yeah. Can you pinpoint what you think triggered that anxiety? Like, what was it? I mean, I know we joke, and I'm just gonna say for the teabags, because uh Malia is like this, her sister is like this, my daughter is like this. We we call them our little um, what do we call you guys? You're our little same. Yeah, well, you are a triplist. Oh, yes, but you're a samus. Yeah, everything, once you like like a thing, everything has to stay the same. So, like you want the same traditions every Christmas, and you want the same family vacation traditions, and it matters to you to have that connection that is rooted in this tradition sort of a thing. That being said, I mean, at that point, I don't know that we would have realized that you were that much of a samus. And so can you think of what may have triggered the anxiety that you felt, even though you were moving in the same town?

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Honestly, I just feel like my whole thing with change and really not liking change probably triggered it and just knowing that my whole even though my whole life really wasn't changing, it felt like it for my nine-year-old self.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

And it just felt like my life was over for some reason. Because it was the house I grew up in. I didn't know anything different. We lived somewhere different for the first six months of my life, but I don't have any rec like do not remember that at all. Right. So that was where I grew up. It was where we had all of family stuff. It was the place that like grandma and nanny had visited, and like I think at that point they both were not alive anymore. Correct. So um I was not right, no, they yep, they both would have been gone.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

And it was the place where I had all those memories, and I mean, even Pap Pap too, like that was the place that he was at.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

And I think just like leaving behind all those memories and stuff was probably really hard for me. And I don't even think I understood that then, but like just thinking about it now, like all of those things, because I mean at that point, like I guess I didn't realize I wouldn't be seeing Pap Pap. So I guess just like the all the change meshed with all of the memories, just cousins, family, all of that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah, you felt like it was just going away. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So, with that in mind, let's talk a little bit about your family moves away from not just it's like your childhood town at that point, right? Because it wasn't really your childhood home. It was part of your childhood home. But you'd already gone through that once. Yeah. But you're moving away from your childhood town and friends at a what I would consider kind of a really interesting age. It was similar in like to the age that I was when my family moved from outside of Philly to New Freedom. You were going into high school, well, you did a year of high school.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

I was it was the summer between my ninth grade and tenth grade year of high school.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

So and I moved the summer between seventh and eighth. So it was like very similar. It's pretty similar. It is kind of a pivotal time as a teenager. Yeah. Because those are it's like a period of of growth that is happening you know, with those those ages. Yeah. When you moved, were schools that fall still operating virtually? Like what was your high school path at that point from the time you moved back to PA? I'm saying back, which is funny. Your mom and dad moved back to PA. You were born in Jersey, so you never lived in PA.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

I think that we had done some research, and I think the public school in the area, it was operating but on like a virtual kind of schedule. So like I don't remember if it was they were fully virtual or half virtual, half like half go in, half stay at home.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

But I remember just like begging my parents to find an online school because I was I just didn't want to do the new school thing again. I was already tired of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

And I really and it felt very close because I remember we moved on, I think it was August 20th, and that public school started like the next week. And I just felt like I was not gonna be okay going to another school after we had literally moved a week before.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

So I think honestly, in most of the other schools too, where s everything was still virtual because it was only a couple months after the pandemic. And they listened, they signed me up for an online charter school that I did for that entire year. That's right. Which I'm very grateful for because I feel like number one, that school helped me with my like time management and like I feel like it prepared me for college because it was kind of like college where I just sat and did it all on my own. Yep. And I felt like that was very helpful, but that was that year, it was just all online for me. I was kind of it was kind of lonely, but sure. I think it was really good for me.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Well, I think the and the loneliness too, that part of it, like talk about the town that that we're sitting in right now.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah, I mean there's not a whole lot, at least like where we live, we don't even know our neighbors. They're everything is so far apart. I don't know anybody. I know the people I work with, but that's it. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

You're in a pretty rural spot. You're not in a in what we would traditionally call a neighborhood. Yeah. Because yeah, the properties here are a little bit bigger and you're not in any sort of there's no HOA here. There's not like a, you're not having block parties here. Exactly. Right? Okay, so how would you say COVID impacted your ability to like meet and make new friends?

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Honestly, through volleyball, I joined, I guess I can say the name of the school. Sure. But yeah, so we live in Green Lane, the high school was Souderton. Okay. I didn't ever end up going there, but I did play on the volleyball team for that fall season. And that was nice. I didn't, I don't, I didn't really stay connected with any of the girls, but there were a couple that they were they were nice to me. Yeah. But just having that like social network, because that was it. Aside from family, that was it. My uh I had a couple friends from Jersey that I would visit and they would visit a couple times, but other than that, it was it. Um, and then after the fall season ended, I joined a club about 20 minutes away, and I actually did make a very good friend from that club who we're not really friends anymore, but we were for that period of time. Um and having that was really good because it also gave me a sense of like community because it was volleyball friends and then it was family, which in some ways was good because I felt like that was the year where I started to kind of get closer to everybody again after me being depressed in early or like elementary, middle school, and then kind of doing my own thing, like really finding my friends in middle school and then moving. So, in a way it was good because I felt like I did connect more like with my parents, with you, with Kenzie, but definitely my social network was very small.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah. So, one little sidebar thing that I will mention for the teabags, I was convinced for many years that Malia did not like me. Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't know that. Well, yeah, we've talked about this. I think maybe we have to talk about it. Um, maybe I've just talked about it with your mom. But yeah, I think like, you know, your mom went through a rough time after you were born. I visited a lot, so I was around you a lot when you were a baby. And even when you were a baby and I would hold you, it would look it you would like stare at me sometimes, like you were burning the soul of my soul. Like, I don't know. You just looked at me like, I don't know about this one. She's a little sus. And so yeah, I just thought because you didn't want to ever talk, like you would never just like sit and have conversations. And I just used to tell your mom all the time, I'm like, Yeah, I'm pretty sure she just hates my guts. This was not true, but you did. There was almost like a switch went off at some point. I remember we we came here, we were visiting, and I sat down in the sitting room downstairs, and you came in. It was like after her, I don't know, after classes or volleyball or whatever. Yeah, and you sat down and you just immediately started telling me about your day and drama and what and I like after you were done and you like went up to your room, I just looked at your mom and I was like, I'm gonna cry. She talked to me. I didn't even know this. Well, and honestly, I don't think I had for as much as I've been involved in all of your lives, honestly don't think I had as much of a handle on the depression side of your anxiety and depression because I felt like I had been around all your life. Like, why would you be anxious around me? So I just don't think I really clocked um all of that.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

So yeah, it definitely wasn't like you. I think I have a weird thing where, like, if I'm if it's not my parents, I don't want to be there. Got it. But I'm the most comfortable like at your house, if anything. And like just with you and just being with you, it's like being with my parents. But with I struggle with like a lot of other people, sure. But it's definitely different because I'm the most comfortable around you that's not my parents.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that the same exists for like Kenzie as well, and and probably Nina.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Um, wait, Kenzie actually calls this her east eastern PA home. So she lives in Western PA, but she comes here.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

She's sitting in her spot in the bed right now, actually. You really are.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

You are. You're on Kenzie's side of the bed right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

We share a bed when she's here.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

There you go. So you think at some point, well, okay, the other point I wanted to make too, for any teabag who doesn't understand how cyberschool works, when you do, at least in Pennsylvania, I'm not sure if this is true everywhere, but in Pennsylvania, if you cyberschool, you are 100% allowed to try out for sports and join sports teams in your local school district. And that is so to your to your point, and I think to your parents' credit, having you get involved in something was probably one of the more helpful things for sure. So was do you think that college was always your path or had you considered other career path options?

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Honestly, no, I'd never really considered anything else because it always felt like from the time I was kind of able to understand school and like how school worked, it was college. That is the step after high school and nothing else. And I still feel that way for myself because I don't think I would do well going and doing like a trade school or something like that. I think I feel like I was definitely meant for college. Because while I don't always love like sitting in class and stuff, I do enjoy learning and I do enjoy what I'm doing. But it never really felt like there was an option to just not go to college.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Okay. And do you feel like that was driven more by how like how you were raised to think about college? Was that more like in the home versus in school? Or do you feel like you kind of got that sense even from like school, like high school counselors and teachers and and what have you?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

I feel like it was honestly more from the home. Like my mom has always been very high school, and then you go to college, and that's that. And I know why she like she wanted that for us, because I mean not everybody has the opportunity to do that, and because we did, like we should absolutely take it. And I'm very glad that I did. But even in school, like I honestly don't remember there being a lot of I mean, again, I went to three different high schools. True. So freshman year, they weren't really talking about it because that you they don't really do that when you're a freshman. Fair enough. Sophomore year was online, but then by the time I got to junior year, I don't know, I have mixed feelings about the high school I graduated from, but I truly never felt a lot of like college, college, college. Like they prepared us and all, but it felt like a lot of work was done on my mom's side to help me as opposed to my school.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Okay. That's that is really interesting. It's an interesting perspective. And I think part of the reason why I want to understand that is because I think those conversations shift over time, and they probably shift in like cycles in a way. Because I know when I was going to college, it was very much back in the 80s, in particular. Like I graduated from high school in '92. So I actually went to college in the the early to mid-90s. But in the 80s, when parents were really starting to harp on their kids about going to school, there it was because it was positioned, and I think it was very fear-based, that they they otherized trades. Yeah. So it almost was like, well, you don't want to be that person. You want to be the person who goes to college and gets a professional degree, etc. And that shifted over time. Yeah. Rightfully so, because that's a silly thing to do to kids. But then I would say, too, we didn't have help. Like I didn't have guidance at home, and guidance counselors weren't like, we'll handle all your transcripts and we'll handle filling all of this stuff out for you. You don't have to do anything. That was not how it worked for us. We had to seek it out. And so I'm fascinated by how some of the things have changed. So from your perspective, do you feel like like, how do you feel like college is marketed to you?

SPEAKER_02 26:23

I'm trying to like think back to high school. I mean, I think it was definitely encouraged. I think most of my teachers throughout high school their goal was to prepare us for college because that was just kind of the general, that's what most of us are doing, so that's what they're gonna prepare us for. And I mean they did they I know they had like a lot of events and stuff like for college, for like juniors in high school to go to because you're gonna start applying. Right. And this, this and that. I don't really I can't even really speak too much on how it's being marketed nowadays, just because I feel like even from when I graduated to now, it might even be different. But I definitely feel like even from when I was younger to kind of when I got to high school, there was there was not as much pressure to go to college. It was definitely like, yeah, this is what we're preparing you for, but also there's other options.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

So it definitely felt like the pressure that you and like my mom faced would did not really happen, at least in like the school sense, for at least from what I remember.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Okay. And do you feel like the colleges themselves marketed to you? Like how did colleges sort of present themselves? Were you getting outreach from schools and were they trying to convince you to go to their school over other schools? Like, how did that look for you?

SPEAKER_02 27:47

In my experience, there wasn't a ton. I mean, I just remember getting so many emails and letters from different colleges, just like, here's what here are the steps you can take to apply to our school. And I feel like the reason I ended up choosing Elizabethtown was because we saw it at one of the college fairs at my high school, and it seemed like they had a really good program and they just seemed really enthusiastic about it.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

And enthusiastic about people coming there. And that kind of that plus like my scholarship were driving factors. Okay. So I felt like Elizabethtown specifically was very outreach forward, but I didn't really feel that a lot from the other schools I applied to.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Okay. And then when you were looking at schools and and trying to sit and make choices, what were some of the attributes that you were looking for in a school? So pretend outside of just Elizabethtown, but just in general, as you went and did some school visits, what were some of the things that were important to you?

SPEAKER_02 28:43

I knew I wanted something smaller because that's just kind of my vibe. I'm not really like the big school, like 20-minute walk to class, parties every weekend. That's not really my vibe. Just I like a quieter, more personal, I guess, which I really like about my school because it's kind of like a high school classroom where all your teachers know who you are.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

And you can go meet with them and they will know exactly who you are and why you're coming to them. So that was definitely a big thing, is just the size of it. I also didn't want to go too far. I maybe would have gone out of state, but not far out of state. Okay. Partially, I think one of my mom's concerns were just like my some of my medical issues.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Just being not too far, but also for me, I was like, I just want to come home when I want to. Sure. And with Etown being like two hours away, I can easily do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

So that was something big too. Because I also, even though I know that I'm gonna have to miss out on family things, there's a lot that I do want to just be able to come home for for a weekend if there's something going on.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah. Do you feel like that is driven by some of your anxieties? Or do you feel like that is also a function of you were you homeschooled for a year, you moved during COVID, you had all this upheaval and change. Is it just that you wanted that closeness to home because home is such a touchstone? Or do you just think that's like personality-wise just how you are?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

I think both. I think it's definitely always been kind of in my personality. Whereas like Nina's very, she's more adventurous than I am. Sure. And she's already going farther than I am for college. So I do think it's part of my personality, but also partially it is like just I feel safe knowing that if I need to go home, I can.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

I can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

And there's no like, oh, I have to book a flight home or anything like that. It just feels very safe. And like I always feel, especially like when it gets towards the end of this fall semester, I tend to get really depressed towards that and just being able to come home for those weeks. That's why I always come home, like those last couple weekends in November, I'm just like, I'm here again.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Every weekend, because I just don't want to be at school anymore and I just want to be here. And so just having that and knowing that I can just do that. Yep. And it's a two-hour trip and that's it, yeah, is really nice.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, that is pretty awesome. And so part of the draw for the school that you chose, how much of that focus was based on what kind of job you thought you'd be able to get versus having the program and the education to help you figure out maybe what job you might want.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah. Well, I remember Etown talking h highly about their psychology program, because that is my major. I don't even know if I said that. And again, I think that was a driving factor was we were like, okay, this looks like a really good program. They have a three plus two counseling program, a four plus two counseling program, which I am not in.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Because my pathway kind of changed and then changed back. But the fact that it had both of those and they were built in, we were like, that's really cool. Because it when I first started college, that's what I wanted to do. And I'm forgetting the question. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

That's okay. It was just more like, did you go because of the program, or was it because you knew you were gonna have like enough, better put, like, is the program set up so that you have all these gen eds and you can kind of maybe figure out along the way? Like what path, like, did you know what you wanted going in, or did you know you were gonna need to kind of like figure it out a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 32:11

At first, yes. I knew exactly what I wanted when I was going in. So I think the program was more of a driving factor as opposed to like let me explore my options because I knew what I wanted at first. And then it changed, but then it now I'm kind of changing back to my original plan. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

But okay. What is like understanding that college is not just about post-school jobs? It's definitely a period where, you know, as a young adult, you're experiencing things that help promote your own personal growth. Can you kind of talk a little bit, share a little bit about some of the clubs, the events, like personal relationships that have helped your growth, you know, since you've been at school? Let's see here.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Well, I'm in more than one club, but the main one that I'm in is Malica, which is the a cappella group. And that I feel like if I hadn't joined that, my college experience would be so different. Yeah. Just because I was so scared going into college. I think I cried the first like three days of college. Like it was just really bad at first. And the first semester, I'm not gonna lie, you cannot pay me any amount of money to redo that.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Because I was just not in a good space in a lot of ways. I was I missed my family. I was in a I started in a relationship that I probably should not have gotten into.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

And just like I was just sad. I just missed, I missed home. I didn't feel like I had a lot of friends. Um, one of the close friends that I have, and she is a lot of my friends have given me permission to name drop. So I should so I met um Chelsea, like actually like over Instagram months before we went to college.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

But and we'd kind of talked, we didn't end up rooming together, although we will be next year. So that's exciting. But we decided to meet up and go to it's a the event they hold is called Campaign, where all the like performance groups kind of show off what they do, and we're like, let's go to that together. And we got dinner that night and we just talked about like Broadway and stuff, and we were like, okay, we have this in common. We both auditioned for Melica, we both got in. And so she's been kind of like my day one of college because it's just been her, and we used to do we don't do work together as much anymore. I think just because our schedules conflict a lot, she's student teaching more than she was before, but we used to do work every day together, and we go to Melica, and she's definitely still like one of my best friends at college, and sh just had and having her there throughout the entire so far three years has been so helpful. Yeah, and because I always knew that even though like I didn't have a lot of friends, like I had this one friend who I know I could count on.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

So she was definitely like a big part of the beginning of college, but all of it too. Yep. Um, and I think just Melika in general, like when I came in as a freshman and just meeting all of the older girls and becoming friends with them, and now I'm a junior, and now people that I'm friends with are younger than me, but it's still like the same kind of bond. And I would say even like tighter now than it was. We definitely have a very at least like most of us I would say have a very close relationship with each other, and so that has been just really good for my entire college experience.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

That's very cool. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the struggles that you feel like you had specific to college? Like forget about earlier anxieties and things, although I'm sure some of them just morphed into, you know, some of the things at college. But talk a little bit about the struggles that you feel like you were most proud to overcome.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

I would say not, I would say the first time when I was home and I was like, oh, I actually kind of want to go back to school right now. That was a big moment for me because I was like, I never thought I would feel that, where I was like actually enjoying school. So I think even though I wouldn't even call like being able to enjoy school a struggle that I had to overcome, but it was definitely something I was proud of. I was like, wow, I'm actually liking it and I want to go back. I don't, I'm not crying when I'm leaving home, yeah, dreading going back to campus. Yeah. So that was definitely a big thing. And I think just how far I've come with like my classes and stuff and keeping the high grades that I have. And I've been on the Dean's list every semester, minus one. Okay. Minus one semester, okay, fall sophomore year. But I'm very I love how you like rolled right off the tomb, too. It was I had to take psychological statistics, and that it was really, I was really bad.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Um so that that kept me off. But just keeping my grades up throughout and just all the other accomplishments I've had. So like one of the biggest ones that I was really proud of was I got into Psychai, which is the psychological international psychology honor society. Oh, nice. I don't even know what it stands for, but I do, but like the words get mixed up. Sure, that's a um I was really proud to get into that. Cause I for I think it's like the top something percent of your major. And I was like, I knew that it wasn't like everybody. I think there was like nine of us that were inducted, and I was like, this is really cool. And now for next year I'm the vice president of it. So I'm like, that's awesome. That's very awesome. So things like that I'm like really proud of is just because like high school me would not think I didn't I never thought I could like achieve things like that. I never I never thought myself as like dumb, but I was like, Yeah, you're not smart enough to go and like do that. I always always thought that about myself.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Such a smart kid, but but we all see ourselves in a way that other people see us differently, and you live inside your brain 24-7, you know. So that's really interesting. So if we like shifting gear from like personal growth, which college is definitely a time for, but into more like professional growth, you've definitely had friends in your that are also in your major at Elizabethtown. You've had friends who are older than you are in your major at Elizabethtown as well. And so they're experiencing some things before you are experiencing them. And does that like watching your friends kind of go through the same program and starting to experience whatever the path looks like for internships or for job searching or things of that nature, does it color how you are looking at your potential professional future?

SPEAKER_02 38:21

In some ways, yes. I've definitely experienced that. I think, especially this year, being a junior when a lot of my close friends are seniors. Um, like one of my friends, Lainey, who not my major, she's computer science and graphic design, and we would talk about the job search and stuff, and like she's I know that she had a lot of concerns because she graduated a couple weeks ago. Yeah. And I know she had a lot of concerns just because of her major and how not they don't need people to do computer science jobs anymore. And so I know that for her that was a big struggle. And then I watched three of my other friends who we all came into college together. It was Olivia, Cassidy, and Katie. We all came in the same year, but they were all in a three plus two program.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Um, psychology. I definitely think they while they I watched them kind of struggle and be like, this is like I just want to go, I just want to finish, I just want to be a counselor already. Yeah. And like kind of just want to be done with all of like the project stuff. I also watched them like all three of them just really thrive in what they did. And it kind of made me a little like less nervous to go into my senior year. Okay. And it made me want to just continue down my path of counseling, especially just being closer with them too, especially this year, and just getting to know them better. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, like I can do this too, because they're all really good in what they're gonna do. So even though like I have there's like the opposite spectrum where I know Laney's kind of struggling with is she gonna have a job?

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

I know that at least for myself and my other three friends, I'm like, we we probably will, depending yeah, on how so I guess let's just put a pin in that for a second.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

What are you, what is your path?

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Right now, I would like to once I finish my four years, hopefully go to grad school for counseling, preferably somewhere where I can commute from home. Okay, so it's a little bit easier and less expensive. Okay. But then I I would like to be a counselor, maybe specifically for children, but maybe specifically for children dealing with like a trauma of some kind, or I don't know. Because I also have a criminal justice minor, so I kind of would love to integrate that too.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah, because you had originally kind of been talking about, maybe not originally, uh, over like the last year or so have been talking about like advocacy as well. And so that's why I was like, okay, maybe we should just hit pause and like let's talk about your path for a second. Yes. And yeah, I would say that I mean, just from the amount of people that I know in my life who have been looking for therapists or psychologists or what have you, it's it's really hard to be like there's just not enough help for the number of people who seem to like really be seeking out help right now. So I think you're right, probably from a job perspective, you might not be in like immediate danger. But when you started college, AI was like not this real mainstream thing at the time. No, it really wasn't, but it has exploded over the last year in like really big ways that I think we could all agree are not fully understood and probably not fully implemented correctly, uh, depending. Yeah. Depending on you know, the scenario. And we're kind of like parsing out at this point how it's impacting how kids learn, what job disruptions are happening? Is it really helping people be more productive? Are they using it correctly as a productivity tool, etc.? So I think it's there's a lot of chaos that's happening with this disruption. How has AI impacted your assignments? Like, has your school been able to effectively safeguard against its use for like assignments and testing?

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Honestly, I don't even know because a lot of them, like, we'll go into class, syllabus, there's a statement on AI. It's things that I just skip because I don't use it to write my papers and I don't use it to do things for me. Okay. If I use it, I try to use it more as like a helpful tool as opposed to like doing it for me. So I can't even say for the classes that I know there's some classes that are AI focused and they encourage you to use AI. Okay. And then there's others that are completely against it. And then there's people, there's teachers that fall in the middle where they're like, if you want to use it as a tool, okay, that's fine, but don't use it to do the work for you. Right. To actually like write your papers. Right. Exactly. So it really entirely depends on the professor and their rules. And it's just it's interesting to see just the different how different professors kind of take it. I would say I would hope that we are effectively kind of like doing something to be able to prevent people from doing all the work. And I think more people than not use it appropriately. Okay. But I do think there is like a still a good percent that kind of like ruined quote ruined it for the rest of us. Yeah. Where now it's like in every single syllabus and all of that kind of stuff. Cause I honestly like just the friends that I talk to, like, it's like, yeah, we use it as a tool sometimes, but a lot of us were like, yeah, we don't use it to do it for us. Yeah. Because we don't want to. A lot of us like we just want to, we want to learn, we want to be able to do it ourselves. Yeah. At least for me. The farthest I will go is like if I have a paper, I find all my sources myself, I have my topic, and I'm like, just give me a good outline to go off of.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

And that's like the extent of it, just to help me out a little bit, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

And um what I hope that that's kind of like the way people use it too, is just like a helpful tool, but yeah, I can't say for sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Okay. What's interesting is recently I was reading that in the state of Pennsylvania, we are now starting. To go after what they're calling like AI therapists, and I'm kind of like air quoting it because apparently there has been some AI, like not that the AI is posing as a therapist, AI is not sentient, they can't pose, but somebody clearly has set up like an AI as a therapist, and apparently, like maybe bought run, whatever. Yeah. And so, you know, the state of Pennsylvania is is trying to figure out ways to crack down on that because obviously it's not licensed. They're pulling from whatever information, it's not always accurate. I'm sure we've all seen what Google AI spits back out at us when we Google something, and it is not always correct. In fact, very frequently it is not. And so, from that perspective, do you feel like your professors are talking about it in a way like are they preparing you for how AI may potentially impact your career? Or is there the thought that that's not a real thing for psychology or for you know any kind of clinical therapy?

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Honestly, there hasn't been any talk in any of my classes about that. Because a lot of the things I heard going into college was when I would tell people I'm a psychology major. The res the general response from a lot of people was, oh, good. Like we need more, more of that.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

And we really haven't talked about that or the prospect of like that even being a thing. Okay. We're all like, at least I've kind of been under the assumption, like, you know, we we need more therapists, so like I'm gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

And I don't yeah, I really wouldn't say I mean I haven't taken a ton of which is funny because that is what I want to do. There's a lot of like counseling classes. I haven't really taken many of the counseling psychology classes. I took one, but it was kind of be not I wouldn't really say before it blew up, but like full 2024, not as big as it was now. And I can't really say that any of my teachers or my professors have talked a lot about the prospect of psychology specifically being taken over, quote, sure by AI.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

It's interesting to me because again, when I think about the fact that, you know, I went to college, it was definitely a thing back in back in back in my day. Back in my day, exactly, where it was like, well, that's what you do because there, you know, there's a difference between like using your brain and using your body or muscles, which is so again, so silly. Like in in I even thought it was silly at the time, but it was also like, well, I was not going into a trade anyway, I was gonna go to college. Plus, for me, it got me out of my house. Yeah. I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to college because I gotta get out of here. So, but then talking to Patrick, you know, hearing him and some of the bitterness where he really felt like when he was in high school, that his cohort, which is the same generationally as you, right? But different cohort at the time, was kind of sold a bill of goods. The way that he saw colleges marketing to students, the way that he saw teachers talk about college, guidance counselors talk about college, was much more like differently than me. It was much more like a, well, if you want a better job and you want to be able to afford a home and you want, because all those things that millennials went through that they didn't really address with Patrick and his cohort from a fact-based perspective, it was more feels, right? It's like, well, you know, that generation, they weren't able to do X, Y, and Z. So if you want to make the money, like this is the path that you take. And he said, like, and he he just reiterated again to reiterated it again to me today, where he was like, Yeah, it was almost like you're guaranteed to get a job and do better than the generation that came before you, kind of a thing. And so coming out the way that he did, because he graduated in 2020 and everything was a fucking mess. Yeah. And but he still said, like, even if it had been normal, he still doesn't know that he would have been able to come out and not have like this mountain of student loan debt. And, you know, again, it's like it puts off your ability to adult effectively because you're digging out of this hole. And again, going back to you guys could take out the exact same amount of student loans that I could take out, you know, 30 some odd years ago when I went to college, but the cost of college has doubled and sometimes tripled, depending on the school. That's insanity to me because we're basically over time, we're setting kids up almost for failure. Yeah. Like coming out like failing already. You're behind the eight ball. Yeah. And so from that perspective, do you feel like, I don't know, where do you see challenges and where do you see opportunities?

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Um, I think some of the challenges is that even though maybe the mindset has shifted, I think it's still, it was still a similar thing to what like Patrick experienced, where when you when we all went into college, it's like, yeah, we're gonna get a job. We go to college and we get a job, and that's how it works.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

But then I think the farther you get into college, the more you figure out, oh, this is actually like harder than you thought. And oh, you should get an internship here, and this is when you should do it. And actually the deadline is earlier than you thought. And that's why I don't have an internship this summer, is because I it was like early March, and I was starting to think about it a little bit. I was like, I don't even know, like, shall I like apply now? Started meeting with the career services at my school, and I was like, oh, this is like a lot more than I thought, and also the deadline's kind of coming up, yeah, creeping up on me really fast. And it just got so far and I got lost in it where I just kind of lost the ball and didn't apply to enough on time. Yeah, and that was that. And so all those little things like well, you should have an internship if you want to put yourself out there, and employers will see that and they'll like that better. Yep. And just all the all of the little things that are. Yeah, the resume builder. Yeah, right, yeah. All those things that you don't really realize are challenges, I would say, just because you kind of just think it's you go for your four years, you graduate, you get a job, but then there's all of like the little things that go into it that you don't really think about until you're in it, and then maybe it's too late. Not too late. I don't want to say that because like I feel like there's you know you're never really too late for anything. Like you can go back to school at any point.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

I feel like just because you don't have an internship at this point in time doesn't mean you can't have one. I have friends that were quote supposed to graduate in 2025, but just had to put it on hold for a little bit, and they're going to be very successful. And I just I'm very like proud of them for coming back and still graduating and being able to do what they love because they put it off for a little bit instead of graduating when they were quote supposed to. Right. And so I feel like you there nobody really tells you that like when you get into college, is that actually it's okay if for some reason you don't graduate within those four years and you need to do a little bit more time.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

And so I think, yeah, those are the challenges, the little things, and then also kind of the thought process of needing to know what you want to do with the rest of your life when you're 17, applying to college. Because that's the whole thing, like I'm watching my mom and my sister go through it right now, like when she was applying to college. It's like, how is she supposed to know the exact program when she's 17 years old trying to figure out where she's gonna go and what she's gonna do with the rest of her life at such a young age?

SPEAKER_00 51:52

So that is, I think, another big challenge is it just comes up on you when you're so young and still like so immature, not immature, but like kind of and yeah, I mean you're still growing and your brain is still developing, and you know, unless you're very specific in what you like knowing that you want to do, I think, you know, a lot of engineers will say like they kind of knew because you have to apply into an engineering program at a school. Um, and it's pretty specific. But I think for anybody who's just like, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I kind of like this subject, but I don't know what I want to do with it. Exactly. So, how do you know which school to go to? Because they have this school has this program and this school has this program, same discipline, but two totally different areas of focus. Yeah, and that pressure to to kind of walk through a door that shuts other doors is very daunting and anxiety-inducing, I think.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Yeah, I think so too. And of course, like there's the oh, well, you can go back to school, yes, but also not everybody has the same opportunities or no the be like most people can't afford to just go back and do it again. That's true for something different. And so that's another challenge, too, is just like, yeah, you hypothetically can go do other things and open other doors, but it's gonna cost you.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

It does, yeah. I think that we put a lot of, and again, this goes back to the whole part of why you know we're talking about it is it costs so much fucking money to go to college, so much more now than it did even when I was in school. And I know people who are, you know, had to defer student loans and you know, are just paying them off like from when I was in school.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

And and that when I think about that and the fact that there are kids now who have they take out the exact same amount of federally subsidized loans, they don't have access to more money, that means private loans with the it's insane the amount of debt that some of these kids are coming out of school with. And it's easy to be like, well, then just go do a trade, but not everybody's suited to a trade, you know. And I I do think structurally we go about this all wrong. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, a couple of us can't change an entire system very simply, and so you work within the system that you're in. I just think that we need to do a better job than of arming students with the information, which again, when I go back to the conversations that I had with Patrick, part of what upset me was I felt like we were doing that. And I think that's when you, as a parent, you have that harsh reality of kids are so much more influenced by their friends and what is happening in the school, like their teachers and their guidance counselors and whatnot. Because every kid thinks, well, my my parents don't actually know because they're not in this situation now. The situation has changed from when they were in school. And and so it it bums me out that I feel like we're in this spot where we're not doing the greatest job at educating kids what this looks like when you come out on the other side. You're not guaranteed a job. Yeah, nobody's guaranteed a job. When I think about colleges marketing, and I'm putting that in air quotes for the teabags who can't see me, but marketing to kids, it's like one of the stats that they love to say, particularly in parent meetings, is we have a 95% job placement rate, or we have in the major, it's like overall we've got like an 89%, but in this major, it's 98%. Yeah. And that is meant to make you feel like it is a guarantee. Yeah. Like your kid's not gonna walk out of here without a job. And I think because we parents want to believe that, and I think kids do too.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

And I think it also especially makes it easier for kids to be like, well, I mean, you heard the mom. Like, this is the school I really want to go to. Yeah, exactly. Listen to this job. And and I will tell you, part of that I think worked on Patrick, whether he would talk about this from this perspective or not. Loyola, when you know, when we went, like they have they network very, very well and they talk about their network of graduates.

SPEAKER_03 56:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

They also have a really awesome career center that everybody has access to. But you know, some of the things that they don't really talk about are some of the little things that you're talking about as challenges. So is your advisor telling you, hey, you need to be thinking about X, Y, and Z? And here are some of the things that you should be keeping in mind, deadline-wise, for those. Like, did your advisor have any of those conversations with you?

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Honestly, not really. He's great. Sure. I I really do like him. I'm glad he's my advisor. Um, especially for especially for just psychology in general. But I don't really even think it's a him issue. I think it's a general advisor, like, they're there to help you kind of with your courses and stuff, but it doesn't really feel like they are there to help you kind of lay out, well, if you want an internship, this is when you should do it. And here are some good places. And I maybe I'm not even asking the right questions to them. I did it kind of inquire to him about like internships, and he was like, Yeah, you can go ahead and do one. You don't really like need my like permission or help. And I was like, Okay, sounds good, but I don't think that's really a him thing. I think that's just a general like guidance, yeah, counselor, whatever they are, advisor thing is that it's just something I've noticed with like a lot. I don't really think it's like their fault, they're just there to do what they're supposed to as advisors, which is kind of just help you along with your courses and stuff. And then you get to a point and you're like, oh, like I I guess I should be doing internship stuff, but it feels like I'm very alone in it. And I feel I feel like if I didn't have like my mom, I would not know what to do at all. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

That makes a ton of sense, and frankly, I think it also speaks to the shifts in how we all went about our educations. Like, again, if I think back to when I went to college, I mean our parents didn't help us do those things. We literally had to like I actually remember making time to like during study hall to go to the guidance office to sit with this big fat book that had like all of the college codes, and I would go through and pick out like what schools do I think I would want to go to. Yeah. And then talk to the guidance counselor. All of that stuff by the time my kids went, and I'm sure you do, it's automated. Yeah. You're like your guidance counselor shaping where what kids think about, like when they're looking at schools, but also doing all of the work. Yeah. So there's a difference in what we're expecting kids to do, and then we're expecting them to go to college and then think, okay, well, now I have to go ask questions about these internships. Yeah. And it's not necessarily second nature because you've had so much already taken care of for you in it in a way that I just didn't have. And it's not good, bad, or indifferent. It just is yeah, a shift in how we've managed college applications.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Yeah. That's very true. I think a lot of mine was it, everything's online. I didn't have to do any paper.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

I submitted everything through, I don't even remember what it was.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Oh, it's like whatever that portal is. Like the common end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Um, and my mom helped me through a lot of it. Because it was, it was like a process, and I was like, this is taking forever. It took forever to get to get to the actual place where I submitted my application. But again, everything like was through my guidance counselor. She sent me my transcripts. Yeah. And like all of my recommendation letters from my high school teachers were online. So it would just come through. Like I didn't have to do much. And even just like, I think also there is a change because now I was kind of in the first or second year of when they started to say you don't actually have to submit your SAT scores anymore. It was still a very new concept, but I was very glad I snuck into that. Because my S like I'm my intelligence is not measured by my SAT score. My SAT score was very average. Okay. Which I'm fine with. Like, I really don't care because I don't really not that they're not important, but honestly, I can't tell you one thing from that test. Of course not. Because it felt like it was kind of a bunch of random things thrown together. And maybe I just didn't prepare enough. I don't know. But point is I got in without them.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

To most col actually, no, to all I think I I didn't get into one college I applied to. Okay. But I all the rest of them I didn't submit my SAT scores and I got in. Okay. So I think that is also another like big shift. Yes. Is just not having to do that anymore because they're measuring things differently, which is good in a way. But I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

I agree. I don't understand it, but I agree. Yeah.

unknown 1:00:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Okay, so we talked about some of the challenges. What do you think are some of the opportunities as you look towards? I mean, you're about to enter your senior year, and then you're looking at job market shit like or grad school. Yeah. But you're still probably going to want to shift gears and do something. Maybe it's internship-wise, like while you're doing grad school, whatever that looks like. But what do you feel like are some of the opportunities for you coming out of school?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

I feel like for me personally, I'm in a different position than a lot of other kids I know. Okay. In a, I would say like a good way, just because and I feel very lucky for this. It's why I do work so hard in school, is I will come out of undergrad with no debt because I've my mom, my grandpa, my great-grandfather, all these people have just saved up money throughout the years for me to be able to go to school and my siblings as well. And so in that in itself, just provides me a lot of opportunities. Sure. Because I do have the opportunity to come live at home and see what options I have for grad school and really just be able to go anywhere I can get into. And that is already so helpful. And I think it was the same thing with college, was I already I had that opportunity where pretty much wherever I wanted to go, I could go. So that is definitely a big thing for me is just having the having choices of where I want to go and not having to worry about like living somewhere on my own for that period of time, whether I'm doing an internship, whether I'm going to grad school, and just knowing that because my mom, the last couple like months of like talking about when I graduate and stuff, is like what's the most important is your education. We'll take care of everything else, is what she will say. And it's something that I feel very grateful for, and it's a really big opportunity for me because going to college opened my eyes to a lot of people, and I was like, wow, like not everybody has this opportunity that I do. Right. Some people do, but the majority don't. The majority are are working one or multiple jobs to be able to afford their tuition and taking out student loans, and that's not something I have to worry about, which is not something I take lightly.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

I very much re-like start, especially as I got more into college, realized how great that is. So I would say for me, that is the biggest like opportunity is just having the freedom to be able to choose where I want to go and what I want to do and not having to worry about all of the other things. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

I actually really love that you said it like that too. Not that I mean I'm it's awesome that you're grateful for it, which I think is is wonderful. I just sometimes think the acknowledgement of it is so important because that is a real barrier for so many people. It it really does. Like when I talk about, you know, it putting people behind the eight ball. It's like you're coming out and you're starting this job, and that should mean that you can get an apartment or buy a house or have a car or whatever that is within reason. And for so many people, that debt, it like it makes you cash-strapped and it's really tough. And so it's why you have a lot of folks who are not leaving home maybe right after school, you know, depending on the kinds of jobs that they're getting. There are a lot of people who just simply cannot. They need to rely on the help of family, you know, at least for living for a little bit, yeah. So that they can, you know, maybe get a little bit of money and be able to afford to move out. So I appreciate that you acknowledge it because I do think that there are probably people who don't realize what that looks like for the majority of people. Like that's the majority of college groups, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

I think so. Yeah. At least from in my experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

That's awesome. And do you have concern or do you feel like I mean, I don't think AI is is in danger of taking your job. Do you feel like you've got some job security perhaps coming out of school?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

Possibly. I think it depends because I haven't really one when I graduate, I won't really have any like specialties, whereas if I do go to grad school, I'll definitely have more opportunity for job security. But I think at any rate, like and um interviews might be harder because I know they're competitive, but I I do feel like there will be security just because of the need and because of all of the different issues that are out there. And I mean, people keep saying like things are getting overdiagnosed, but I'm like, no, it's just because they're it we're more aware of it. Yeah, but there's so many people that do need therapy, and there's parents that want to put their kids in therapy, and I think it is a really good thing that is becoming more quote popular, but for at least I think the right reasons.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

I think so too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

And so because of that and because of the need for it and the want for it too, it's definitely I I do feel like I have some security in that is that I will be able to find something, even if at first it's not like anything like high up or like anything like that. I think I will be able to find something.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

Okay, good. Before we rap, I would love it if you have perspective on like advice. Or even just thoughts for anybody coming into college or kids who are in high school and who are starting to think of what their future looks like, knowing what you know right now about what things look like in the job market, in like how how AI is disrupting jobs, how AI is disrupting school in some cases, though not necessarily for you. Yeah. Do you have thoughts that you would provide to?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

I think one of the biggest things is using the resources as early as you can, even if it's not in like, quote, important yet, where you don't really need to go figure out internships yet, but still go to like the people working at whatever your career office is. And I think asking questions about AI and what you want to do and how it's affecting the thing that you want to do is really important so that you can understand, like, okay, maybe maybe we switch gears or maybe we just keep working at this, but find out like where can I go that will suit me the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

And I can still feel like I will secure a job when I leave here.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

And also, kind of aside from the AI conversation, just like not being so if you if you know what you want to do, that's great, but don't feel so much pressure to go in and be like, this is what I'm gonna do, and this track cannot change because it can change. It changed for me, sure, not necessarily affecting like the amount of years I had, but my pathway changed for like an entire year where I didn't want to be a therapist anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

But I know other people that switched they switched gears a lot, and still they're gonna end up doing something that they love because they switched gears and because they chose something that they actually wanted to do. And I think that's another big thing is finding something you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Instead of something that you feel like you have to or that like your parents want you to go do. What is gonna be the most beneficial for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Because my goal is to not live a miserable life. I want to do something that I love instead of something that I just do. Yeah. And so that's just doing what you actually want to do, hopefully something you're good at as well. But I feel like anyone can get good at anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Yeah, I think if you apply yourself, I think that's that's a really fair, solid assessment. Yeah, yeah. And I really love that that you that that's your goal. I think that that's really, really awesome. Yeah, I don't want to be miserable in the world. I don't want to be miserable. I don't know. There's enough misery in the world, it shouldn't be the thing that I'm doing 40 hours a week for sure. Yeah, I think that that's awesome. There was something that you said that made something else pop for me. And I know I already said before we wrap, and maybe I lied, but now I kind of can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:45

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

I know. That happens. It does happen. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:49

A lot of wheels up here.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Totally. So many wheels.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

Just knock on the hamster.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

That's so great. All right. Well, it's not coming back to me, so I guess it's time for three good things about your week. Rolling seven days, my love. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

Today is what, Sunday?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

So okay, number one, I don't feel sick anymore. Well, I'm like 95% better. So that is a big thing because I've been sick for like two weeks now.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

That's a really good thing. I would what did I do? What did I do this week? Trying to think back. Oh, I got to watch a lot of reality TV while I was sick, which was awesome. Secret lives of Mormon Wives specifically.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

I went back and watched season one because I actually well, I've watched the other seasons. I never watched season one. So that was really fun, very enjoyable for myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

How did you watch them out of order? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Like, I would kind of come home and it was just I would just watch whatever mom was watching. Oh, I see. And I'd get caught up, I see, and I kind of would understand what's going on. But I was like, no, I gotta go back and like watch the roots. Like, what do what is the first part? And then I guess the third, which is kind of a general thing, but I actually have been enjoying work this time around, which I don't most of the time just because I end up getting miserable. But I'm trying to look at it from a different perspective instead of like, ugh, I have to go to work, just like, well, I'm here and this is what I'm doing today.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:13

And I'm gonna be here from this time to this time, and that's that. Yep. And just looking at it from a new perspective to enjoy it instead of dread it is really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

I also love that because I feel like that is something that takes some of us a really long time to get to an adulthood is flipping the script on things in your own head and reframing how you how you view things. I think that's super healthy.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

I'm definitely trying.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

Yeah, it's going well so far. Good. Yeah. That's good. Also, there is that sort of um that elder statesman feeling a little bit too. You were just kind of talking about that the other day.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

Literally, like the I think out of all of the younger cashiers, I am the oldest, which is really, really weird. Yeah. So yeah. But I do feel a sense of like, yes, I'm back, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

You're like the work mom.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

Yes, that's how I feel sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

The work mom.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

Oh, you're very welcome. I had a lot of fun. I did too.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

It's also really surreal, you know, again, and I know we've kind of had a couple of these conversations just more recently where, you know, you're watching, like obviously, I watched my own kids get older, but it's different because they were mine and I was with them every single day. There is something that is extra special watching your nieces and nephews get older and achieve these milestones and and get to these spaces. And in a way, it's almost a little bit more jarring. Like it doesn't bother me when I think about the fact that like my oldest is gonna be 32 next month. Well, that's yeah, I know, right? I know, but it doesn't really like phase me. Yeah, but when like knowing you're gonna be 21 in a few months, that for whatever reason is like, what? That's not even real. That can't be real. Yeah. So it's like watching you guys kind of come into your own is different because I'm not with you all the time, but I'm with you a lot. And so there's that, it's almost like every time I see you guys, there's a little bit of some yeah, and there's like some change. And to I would say, I know that you just were talking about how like work is different and like you're thinking about it differently, but I can also say just by seeing you, like it you wear it differently too.

unknown 1:12:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:26

You're not carrying like this stress or this dread or whatever. You're like, it's like hi ho, hi ho. Yes, you know, off to work ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:34

That's how yeah, that's how I'm trying to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

Yeah, that's how I'm trying to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:37

Oh, that's good. I'm glad, I'm glad it's noticeable.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:39

It is definitely noticeable. So good. But yeah, thank you for having the conversation with me.