At My Kitchen Table
Welcome to At My Kitchen Table, a conversational, interview-y podcast where I have a good yap with a guest!
When I was growing up, the kitchen table was the conversation center in a lot of homes. At my grandparents' house, friends and family alike were welcomed with connection as much as with drinks and food. In my parents' house, that tradition continued as my siblings and I would post up and chat with my mom as she cooked or baked or tried to read a book (with much exasperation as we refused to shut up). I found cozy similarity at my friends' homes with their parents, too.
Keeping with tradition, I create a space for everyone who visits my table, where we get to share a little bit of our journeys together - roses, thorns, and stems.
Interested in recording your story with me? Email me at atmykitchentablepod@gmail.com!
At My Kitchen Table
Guest: Braeden Shaak
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Happy Wednesday, Teabags! For those of you who have followed me on socials for a long time or who have read my blog, you’ll know my guest as Kid 1. My oldest, Braeden, joins me at my kitchen table this week to have a yap about what life is like with “Irish twins.”
Plenty of people experience having kids close in age, but Braeden talks about the challenges and joys that come with parenting kids who are extremely close in age. He also discusses how his kids are each other’s shadow, how parenting changes the core functions of who you are, what it means to have a Hootie, and how what is important is what works for YOU.
I also take offense when he calls Mötley Crüe “classic rock” because it’s fucking disrespectful.
Get cozy!
Intro riff by Dale Lytle (concert husband).
All content edited (I use that term very loosely) by Karen Shaak.
At my kitchen table that doesn't have a specific small business about like this week. Let this be a general reminder to support your local small businesses whenever you can. This is a great way to get art and food and books and candles and oils and clothing and plants and so much more that is handmade. No two items or badges or descents are the same because they're not mass produced. Someone put their time and care into something amazing that awaits you in a small shop near you, go explore and find you're amazing. Happy Wednesday teabags. For those of you who have followed me on socials over a long time or who have read my blog, you'll know my guest as a kid one. My oldest Braden joins me at my kitchen table this week to have a yap about what life is like with Irish twins. Plenty of people experience having kids close in age. But Brayden talks about the challenges and joys that come with parenting kids who are extremely close in age. He also discusses how his kids are each other. Shadow, how parenting changes the core functions of who you are, what it means to have a hootie, and what how what is important is what works for you. I also take offense when he calls Motley Crue classic rock because it's fucking disrespectful. Get cozy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she did not uh she didn't let me forget.
SPEAKER_01No, I will tell you one of the funniest things about the fact that we chose this topic is that obviously it's not something that's totally uncommon, right? I mean, people have kids close together in age all the time, but I do think it it presents like pretty unique challenges, and which is why we're gonna talk about it. So, anyway, don't you know today I'm listening to today's armchair expert was Dax Shepard was interviewing Hunter Biden. And so one of the things that he was talking about was so he was from Joe Biden's first marriage, right? His first wife. And he was talking about having a brother who was one year and one day older than he is, and then his younger sister was like 16 months younger or something like that. And I was like, holy shit, that's three under like two and a half.
SPEAKER_04So geez, Joe was getting after it, huh?
SPEAKER_01But that's so funny. Dax almost said the exact same thing.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, as he would, as he would shit.
SPEAKER_01I don't actually want to think about when I think about Joe Biden, but sure, yes, yeah. So just thought that that was kind of funny. Um, anyway, thank you for jumping on and joining me today. This is the second time you've been on, but first time you've been on solo because you did the the family episode at Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_04Sure did.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, awesome. Well, for the sake of the teabags, why don't you introduce yourself and you can share as much or as little as you want?
SPEAKER_04Hi, teabags. Uh my name's Braden. I am Karen's oldest son. I am 32, married with two kids. I am in construction for work. I've been doing that for the better part of my adult life, uh, all of my adult life. I work really hard with my hands. I come home and uh work really hard with my hands again with the the two little ones and trying to trying to stay as active as I can.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Actually, you're not really trying to, you don't have a choice.
SPEAKER_04No, I'm actually trying to do the opposite, but here I am.
SPEAKER_01So awesome. We talk a little bit about, I think before we dive into the actual topic, like where where were you born? Oh yeah. Uh where do you live now? Why is that problematic? Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_04All right. Well, I mean, technically speaking, I was born in New York. That is true. PA. I didn't really wasn't thrilled about that, but I didn't choose it. So no, uh raised in Pittsburgh, uh, obviously a uh a Pittsburgh kid through and through. I mean, we're we're pretty pretty diehard about our teams and you know, loving loving everything about the city. Had had for a while, but obviously as I got into my adult years, I I wasn't really in Pittsburgh because I don't live there, but it is uh it is home. I think it'll always kind of be home. But I do live in the suburbs of Philadelphia. My my family and I live in Bucks County. Uh we're out in Sellersville, and we have uh some other family surroundings, so it is kind of nice to you know have family close by, but yeah, it's not quite, I don't think it's ever really felt like home. That's uh obviously a conversation for a different day, but right. But it is tough because you're you know you're a Pittsburgh sports fan or uh or a Pittsburgh fan in general, and uh they don't take kindly to our kind out here, particularly hockey.
SPEAKER_01I would say it's less less a thing for baseball and football, just because different, you know, different divisions, but we we definitely do not like each other uh as far as hockey is concerned.
SPEAKER_04I think it's odd too because it is like specifically hockey.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, it definitely is.
SPEAKER_04We're not even that's not the same, you know, uh conference, even. But the baseball, it's like sort of never really been a no, never a thing.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, Pittsburgh's not really competition for anybody in baseball. So even if it were a thing, it wouldn't really be a thing.
SPEAKER_04But we're spending money this year. We'll see.
SPEAKER_01Sure, we'll see. We'll see. But again, you were you joined me today, and the the major topic that we're talking about is kind of that two under two conversation. I mean, obviously they are not under two anymore, but you had two kids a year and 11 days apart or something like that. So, you know, real definition of of Irish twins. And one of the things that we're we really wanted to focus on is sort of what the impact of that is, because I think, you know, to what I was saying earlier, it's not like it's an uncommon thing. It it happens, right? It happens to people a lot. But I also think that there are some pretty unique challenges that go along with it, and honestly, some pretty awesome things that go along with it too, that maybe you don't get when you've got your kids spread out a little bit more. So anyway, again, thanks for thanks for jumping on. Were you did you have and I don't know if you gave this a lot of thought. Like I know your brother had given this a lot of thought, but did you always want kids, or was that something you didn't actually think you wanted to do?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, I I think well, I don't think I know that I always envisioned having kids. Okay. It wasn't like a want or a I have to have kids or like this sort of innate need. It was more so like I always just felt that I would be like a good dad, and like uh that was sort of in my future, I guess is is a way to put it. Yeah, I sort of expected to, but uh then when you kind of like break it down, you look at like my situation now when Lindsay, my wife and I met, it was early doors. We had the conversation about uh early doors, like it literally wasn't our first date. Uh we talked about kids and I mean really everything with future, but it kind of aligned that we both had wanted two, or we both kind of landed on having two. So it kind of it kind of worked out that way, where like we always just both thought that we were going to have kids and then we and had kids. Like it was just kind of that that way that it played out, but um, but yeah, I always kind of um thought that I I would or wanted to have kids. It was never like uh like vehemently against anything. Sure. So yeah, I mean that I guess that's it's a kind of a uh roundabout way to answer, but it it wasn't like a thing that I felt like I needed to do, sure, but you know, plus with two, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's actually interesting that you put it that way too, that you didn't feel like you needed to do, but also that you weren't against, because I think that that conversation for people as it should be is pretty nuanced. And I also think I I'm a very, very strong believer in you shouldn't have them if you don't want them. But you know, absolutely if if that's a thing, like kids should always be wanted is sort of how I how I envision that. So I never understand why people get so up in arms when people are like, no, I don't want to have kids, I want to remain childless. And it's like, good, then you should like that's the thing you should do.
SPEAKER_04So but it's more and more common now, I think, too. You know, you kind of fall into these like categories. It's such a weird like label to put on, but it's it's really like, oh, oh, you don't want kids? Uh why is that?
SPEAKER_01I it's I think that's always been for anybody who has dared to say that they don't want them. So, you know, you guys were in a situation where um you wanted and you now have two. How old are how old are the babies now?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, not not babies anymore. Uh yeah, um, no, my my babies are four and three. They just turned four and three, both in March. They are the truest definition of the the terrible twos, terrible threes kind of through that in the sense of uh they hit every every sort of like milestone, like not like cliche, you know, thing, but but they had their own, they each have their own moments of like, oh, this is this is what terrible threes is for you. Yeah, yeah. This is your thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I understand. I understand.
SPEAKER_04And they're both so you know unique about it, for as much as we we like to joke about how they they copy each other and they're little best friends, which is is true. They have their own little nuanced things that you can kind of tell. And yeah, they're individuals, uh, you know, as much as they are, you know, little little Irish twins, they are their own people, and it's fun to watch. But yeah, they are four and three and and they are a year and eleven days apart, as you said. So they are they're on top of each other, they're shadows, they follow each other around.
SPEAKER_01Sure do. What if you can think back to when Declan was first born, what were some of the things that you felt being a brand new parent?
SPEAKER_04Uh initially overwhelmed. I think I think the thing that gets lost uh sort of in this culture of like social media and like this you know sense of like looking for approval or posting to share these joyous things, they are joyous, and and I was over the moon. But like the the real answer is is scared. I mean it's it's uh you know it's it's life altering. I mean, everything changes in in the blink of an eye, and you know, you change some dietary things and you know, some physical things when you know your partner's pregnant, and uh you know how how you eat and how you take care of your body is different, but you know, day to day there isn't a ton that changes really until you know later in in the pregnancy.
SPEAKER_00I mean, like for you, for you or for Lindsay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04For you, I yeah, I by no means am I ever gonna speak for for Lindsay or any any woman for that matter, but I'm smart, smart continue. My perspective. No, but it is very much like blink of an eye, sort of changes where it's like one one minute you're planning or preparing or envisioning or hoping or whatever the word is, and then all of a sudden you're doing it. Right. And so that that moment was clouded with a lot of like you know, happy joy, everybody's excited, which is fair. Uh and and I felt those things too, but you know, there's a real sense of okay, don't fuck this up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? How do I do everything in my power to not fuck up this blessing that I was given?
SPEAKER_01Essentially. Yeah. Well, and of course, like, you know, as you're a few years into this now, you start to realize, oh, I'm gonna fuck it up no matter what. Like, that's what you I mean, there's no there are no guidelines, right? So you do the best you can, and at some point your kid's gonna be like, now I have to be in therapy, thanks.
SPEAKER_04And you're like, you're welcome. As much as your kids are growing and learning and doing all the things, so are you. I mean, that's yeah, that's the other thing I think that maybe doesn't get discussed enough, is like you're you're also changing a core function of who you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_04And that changes every day. So I I do think that there is like a little bit of a learning curve, a little bit of a you know, we'll figure it out kind of mentality, which is, I mean, Christ, we've been doing that the entire time.
SPEAKER_01Everybody's well, and and again, and I think it's good that again that you brought that up because then Addy comes along, and we're not even there yet in in like the conversation, but when Addy comes along, it's happening all over again because now you're you think you have it nailed because you've I just did this whole baby thing this whole last year. Got this, but it's different because she's different and her needs are different, and now you're also trying to figure out what does the one-year-old need while this this infant needs things, and and you're again you're learning on the fly all over again with with the second one. So, yeah, I think that was a really good way to put it. Was Declan easy or hard as a baby?
SPEAKER_04Little column A, little column B. I I think that he was really uh easy in the sense that he picked up things very quickly. He he grasped the holding his own bottle and the you know, with exception of the pacifier, because that was a nightmare.
SPEAKER_01Pretty much I'm pretty sure your sister is still like, you're fucking welcome.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I mean, thank God for for Ant T. Um but yeah, it's it is one of those. I don't know, maybe blessing of the skies. We didn't really know, we assumed or we thought, or we saw things that kind of like led us to believe, like, hey, he's really intelligent, he's really smart, he's picking these things up, but you never really know until you kind of see things kind of play out. And he just naturally did pick up on things quickly. He he was crawling fast, he was pulling himself up fast, walking fast, climbing out of his crib fast, you know, which can be scary, but it is also a sign that you know he's developing, and you know, having that kind of lead, um, he he was very easy in the sense of he just got it. We didn't have to spend a lot of time worrying about precisely, but he was hard for other reasons. I mean, he you know, we we called him hootie for the first year and a half, two years of his life, because the first basically two months that we had him at the apartment, he was nocturnal. Yeah, he legitimately didn't sleep at night, maybe at all, and and would fall asleep very early in the morning, uh, you know, 4 or 5 a.m. and sporadically napped throughout the day as babies do. But at nighttime, it was like he he could not be bothered to to try to sleep, which fine. I mean, he he grew and developed and everything was fine, but you know, he didn't get a nickname for nothing. I mean, he was he was up, so he was difficult in that sense, especially because you know, like I said, I work construction, so I'm up early. I'm I'm you know, I'm out the door by by five, five thirty most days, and uh you know, have having a a newborn or or uh you know less than one year old up until three o'clock in the morning does me no justice.
SPEAKER_01So it's not very conducive to healthy sleeping habits for you. Not that you've had many of those to begin with, but but let's talk about that. Let's let's kind of shift gears into that for a second because you guys didn't have like so we didn't actually talk about what Lindsay does either, but you both work what I would consider labor slash service, right? So if you could share a little bit about what Lindsay's calling is.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh well, she's got a couple of them. She so she initially went to school uh and got her master's degree studying mental health psychology? I don't want to speak mental health psychology, and had been training and studying to pass her licensure exam to be a licensed mental health therapist. That has been happening over the course of many years, but in the interim, back in 2021, I believe, she started an aesthetics business. She got certified in aesthetics, she does lashes, facials, waxes, all those things. Open room business. It's very successful. It's been running five years now. Um, she's got a bunch of girls that work for, she got her own brick and mortar spot, has a successful business there, and then also now recently in the last two to three months, has now ventured out on her own in the mental health therapy space because she did pass her licensure exam. She's now a licensed therapist, uh, started her own practice and now has two, I believe two out of the double check employees working for her in that business as well. Um, so she is a dual business owner, both in the service field, uh, and she is passionate about it. Um, I think that there's a lot to be said about her drive as a as a person, as a professional. Uh, it's one of the things that that attracted me to Lindsay right away was was just how forward-thinking and passionate she was about helping people, um, whether that be in the beauty field or in her her more core passion of mental therapy therapy. But that's that's her sort of story, her, her little background of of what she does, and really kind of gives you a little bit of a glimpse of who she is as a person. Um, she she really does care a lot about you know her clientele and and taking care of people. And because you know, she's in that service field and and I'm in you know, sort of blue-collar um labor intensive fields, uh our schedules are chaotic. Or I mean, even our our just day-to-day is there's days where you know we see each other for 20 minutes at the end of the day before we go to sleep. And yeah, and that's and that's normal. Um, and that's you know, sort of what we've grown to operate with. Yeah. Um, so it's tough, it's jarring, always changing and and always uh, you know, kind of chaotic, really.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, um part of the reason why I wanted to talk about that, like where what her background is and what your background is, is because neither of you had maternity leave or paternity leave. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_04That is correct. Well, I mean, yes, in in its truest definition, yes, neither or no, neither of us had uh leave, but because uh Lindsay was the owner or is the owner. Uh she had a little bit of flexibility with that. Uh she was able to kind of stay home or stay out of work as long as needed. I did not have uh leave, but I was working a job where actually I just with Addy, I had just accepted a job and was planning on starting a job right when she was about to be born. I ended up postponing my start date of that job a week so I could stay home for a week at the house when Addy was born. So that kind of aligned a little bit and gave us a little. I mean, it was a week, it's nothing crazy, but sure, but that job also allowed me some flexibility with my hours and you know, days off as needed and stuff.
SPEAKER_01So but I think that that's why I wanted to to cover that though, and and ask that question, because I mean, you're grateful for like having that that week. And you know, for for a lot of folks who work in corporate jobs, you know, who are demanding things like pat leave and you know, and in places need to have decent maternity leave. And I think that it gets very easy sometimes to forget that there's a whole bunch of jobs across this country that don't have the luxury of those things. And while yes, Lindsay had some flexibility and and when Addy was born, you had a little bit of flexibility. That doesn't translate into any sort of real leave time because you guys work in jobs where if you're not working, you're not getting paid, right? I so I just want to think about that for a second and I want to talk about how does that impact how you look at childcare and and how does that impact and again, high level. I'm not asking for details of your your marriage, but how does something like that impact a marriage? Like what are like what kind of stress does that or doesn't it add to your to you know to a marriage?
SPEAKER_04No, I mean it certainly does. I I think that one of the biggest, maybe overlooked parts of having kids is sort of the natural backburning of you know, the the relationship or or you know, the focus on the relationship, I should say, you know, it still obviously exists in and of itself, but there is this sort of notion that like you know nothing else matters except you know this baby. And and and that is true, you know, in that moment, but you know, there are other parts of your life that by default sort of just get put down the the priority list a little bit. And so yeah, naturally, I I think it it has an effect, and and I think you can control the kind of effect that it has. I mean, to some degree, I think you know, if you're making concerted effort and and you know, attempting or or making an effort to prioritize other things, i.e., relationships and work and schedules, you know, that there is a healthy balance that can be found. And I'm sure that most people don't always find the right perfect healthy balance. Sure. What is what is perfect, but you know, what whatever works for for you, and I and I think that's the key takeaway for us is you know, we do have unorthodox schedules and and lives. We have an unorthodox relationship because of it, and in that we have found this sort of system, I guess, that works. Yeah, uh, it is heavy on relying on help, and a lot of it is in childcare in a sitter uh or or a daycare or uh, I guess like a preschool. kind of thing. Um I don't actually I it's called a daycare, but they do have structured classes, so I'm not really sure what to call it. But that is something that we do. We started pretty early on uh with them when we were able to get in at the ground level with with a friend or mutual friend uh that started a a daycare business. But we do rely on that and and it comes with a cost but it is the sort of outweighing you know when you when you break down the dollars and cents of it you know can you outweigh the cost with what you're bringing in uh especially when you have two people that are passionate about what they do and you know I think I think Lindsay gave birth and she was ready to go back to work the next day.
SPEAKER_01Like she I was gonna say like I remember her going back pretty quickly after Deadly yeah for sure. I think one of the things that's interesting too in your particular case is you guys weren't or or you or she I'm not sure if it was just one of you or just both of you but you weren't really big on the idea of daycare full time you really wanted to minimize um that was me yeah okay so can you talk a little bit about how you structured childcare?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because that also is pretty unorthodox. I think that the word of the day for this episode is unorthodox.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah yeah in this particular instance I I think my my takeaway with daycare has always kind of been like it it's just like a it's a germ infested nightmare. Um and that's that's true as much as you don't want to hear it it is uh it's gross kids are gross and and those places as much as and and they do a great job I'm not bashing them or any other daycare but they're it's just kids are nasty right they they have germs and they play with each other and touch all the same toys and you know kids get sick and it's like you know we do we as much as it helps their immune system and stuff like I really don't want to subject them to you know fevers and ear infections and shit all the time. Like it's just so draining because it breaks your heart to see them not feel well. It it sucks that they're not themselves and they can't be their playful you know selves all the time and and it's like all right we're feeling better do it again next week like we're right back into it. So you know well not to mention when they get sick you can't take them anyway like yeah now now they're not allowed to go right right because they're sick and well they don't want to get other kids sick well how do you think they got sick right right that's my my uh big gripe with them but that's again that's sort of my own personal thing but this this notion of of daycare was it never really sat right with me but you again you have to kind of make uh you know make sacrifices make choices concessions in this case I had made that concession because it made the most sense for us it was affordable it was local it's I mean four minutes away from our house um so it's super convenient for picking up and dropping off on on days you know with work schedules and stuff so that part was helpful and they are flexible in the sense of you can do part or four full time so you can do all day you can do half days you can do one day a week five days whatever you want to do uh that they're pretty flexible as long as you give them sort of your schedule ahead of time so that worked for us it still works for us we do a day a week and then the other days we swap between or stagger between a sitter that comes to the house which we've gone through oh man nine of them at the I mean so many and some of them left for you know their their adult jobs and and other opportunities some didn't work out some didn't have great schedules that that aligned or costed too much or anything like that but there are a number of sitters that we've had that we really really enjoyed some of them we still keep in touch with and the sitter that we currently have now is is a lovely young lady that that does a great job with them takes great care of them and she comes to the house uh in-house uh two to three days a week so daycare one day sitter for two to three and then our fifth day this is my favorite day is uh the day that they go to uncle Brett's house yes uh they love uncle brett so my uh aunt uh Karen's sister and who all the teabags know and her husband Brett have the kids over at the house on typically on Fridays but uh it changes depending on schedules uh one day a week he takes them uh it's a huge massive enormous help uh for us uh they're also local to us they're about 10-15 minutes away um so it's convenient um it's family you know we're able to save a few bucks uh they get to kind of harness that relationship with with family uh and my uh younger cousins who are in and out of the the house uh with school and and travel and stuff uh when they're there it's it's like they have best friends uh that they are they're obsessed with the cousins and the pool and all the things so they they get a day with with fam uh which is great and a huge help to us um we're very very grateful for that yep uh but that's sort of the structure for uh uh childcare uh and it's ever changing and and always moving and you know uh uh lenses move in appointments and sitters are coming at different times and it's it's chaotic but it works and and it works for us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah exactly I was gonna say like there are times where when you guys are talking about childcare I'm like oh I I could never have done that I could never have lived like that I can't that level of chaos because kids are already chaotic and so that that to me is so not a structure but it is a structure that that you guys make work for for you. Yeah so let's shift back to baby number two at this point. So obviously like how old was Declan when you found out that you were pregnant again okay so I gotta do I gotta do a little little math. Yeah so he was born on the 4th of March and then it would have been so he we found out about him on July 11th of the year prior so she would be we found out this would have been end of July end of July early August yeah that sounds right 23 that sounds right 23 22 22 yeah 22 yep I decided to a little brain spin there uh yeah 22 so it would have been end of July early August of 2022 he would have been five months old yeah yeah yeah roughly roughly five months old yeah so I mean at that point then how are you feeling about the prospect of so and so here's why I asked this I'm gonna ask it from your perspective obviously Lindsay is not here to ask about her perspective but why I'm I'm almost sort of laughing when I am asking the question because I know how I felt so I also have some Irish twins in your brother and sister not as close as as Addie and Declan are for sure but Patrick and Kenzie are 16 months apart and I went into a very deep depression when I found out I was pregnant for a third time so quickly after having had Patrick and it was really hard like I was so distraught about being pregnant again that I refused to go to the doctor because I was like I'm I'm so done with being poked and prodded and looked at and told I still had on my vitamins and shit. I'm like I already know what to do. I've done this is the third time I've had to do this I already know what the fuck to do. I'm a exactly and I'm a professional fucking incubator and I was so angry I didn't go I didn't make an OE appointment until I was five and a half months pregnant with her because I was like yeah well I mean most of it most of it too was like well if I go then they're gonna tell me I'm really pregnant and then that's real even though I was very clearly pregnant and it was real. Right then if then this is happening. So anyway so I that's why I'm like laughing when I ask the question because I already know how I felt about it. That doesn't mean everybody does but so how how did that go over for you when you guys find out baby number two is on the way after after having a five month old well like we already have a five month old who who is a handful and you know is is going through all these you know baby things that we're learning with him right we're we're still you know learning as we go and so in that moment of like there is sort of like an oh fuck moment like what now like where you have this sort of like you pause almost and and you kind of bask in that sort of silence of of what are we doing?
SPEAKER_04Like what what happened where where where are we going? What's going to happen next like that sort of fear I guess is the best way to put it but but again like we had also talked I mean we talked earlier about this like this notion that we shared on our first date of like wanting to have two like like this was you know sort of the the life so to speak I did air quotes for anybody listening of uh of like what you know what we expected or sort of what we envisioned uh for us so it was kind of this almost an immediate sense of of like I don't want to call it relief but but almost like a moment of like we're fulfilling what we talked about.
SPEAKER_01You're like checking a box that you you had for you had for yourselves.
SPEAKER_04Yeah and I and I don't want to diminish it to a box as as much as like it's a thing that we were doing but it was sort of this moment of like okay well this is what we said we wanted. Yeah right so so we kind of lived in that a little bit I and I think maybe subconsciously like I don't think we ever really said the words but we had this feeling of like okay well if we're doing this this life that we talked about wanting we're doing it and we're all in and you know we love uh you know we loved um this this time that we had with Declan where he was the only only baby and flip side of that we also had the sort of yeah like a depression or like a like a sadness to him sort of losing that solo uh time yeah and I think and again I'm not gonna speak for for Lindsay but I think that she felt that more heavily than I did. Sure. Not that I didn't feel it but rather that I I sort of tried to focus on the excitement of of getting to that stage and like doing that that thing together. But yeah that moment of like oh we're having another one it's like we we don't even have our feet under us from this one.
SPEAKER_01What are we well exactly that's exactly right it's almost like your your head is spinning a little bit and and now you're faced with all of these things that you're working out just that you've been spending the last five months working out with like childcare and expenses and all of those things and it's now going to be like double. Yeah throw it out the window start over right right you're scrapping that plan and you're building a whole new plan.
SPEAKER_04Plan B. Here we go exactly exactly right exactly right it's figured out yeah yeah I mean that's that is a a true thing like where you don't really think about that in the moment maybe where it's like oh everything that we've already figured out or all the things that are in place change. Because I do think there was a maybe an like a overshadow or an overcloud of like things are going to be different. Yeah like a broad sense right but not like the specifics of what changes or or what maybe you have to do differently. So yeah and and maybe that led to some of the fear too I think a lot of that can be kind of chalked up to like we just didn't know what to expect. Yeah we didn't even know what to expect with the one that we had.
SPEAKER_01So it was like oh we're gonna add another one we'll be all right but we just you know I think there's that element of like you don't know what you don't know and so your sort of your ignorance to it all is the blessing of it all like if we pretend it's not that serious we'll be fine. Right. Well because it's not because we don't know that it's actually serious. We're just whatever we're just gonna do this again.
SPEAKER_04And we'll find out how serious it is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah exactly right exactly right plus it's like finding out is one thing and it is I'm sure shocking but also you still have the entire pregnancy where you're you still have Declan solo for a bit you know but then you know March comes and he now has a sister.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What were some of the things like because I have interesting perspective about this too how did Declan handle it when Addy was born yeah so uh first first little uh note there her due date was actually originally in April that's right her due date with Addy was supposed to be April 15th or 18th April 18th and she ended up being born March 15th so 36 weeks or so that shift to Addy's ready to come out like we're ready to go I think that scared us a bit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah uh because we we were as prepared as you can be at 36 weeks but you just don't expect that so you know sort of in that moment of like okay now it's now it's really real and it's happening sooner than we anticipated. And it's like okay what do we do? So that sort of had this sort of maybe overwhelming sense of panic in that moment. That went away very quickly because I had this maybe it's delusion of oh I got this I had a sense of like I don't have everything figured out but I I just I always figured out that's what I do. That's in my head I'm like I'm gonna solve this just like I would solve anything else. I got this. So I had that maybe like that reassurance in that moment. I don't think Lindsay felt the same in that moment. I think there was that sort of maybe that fear or that overwhelming panic. But Declan initially because he was just a wee babe he was I think maybe just confused one right so sure he didn't have maybe an opinion uh as much as he did just like a curiosity but he was like very cute in the way that he would interact with her and you know we had her on the um like a bump it whatever the little oh yeah yeah like the docker tot thing yeah dock a total we would have her in the docker like just kind of laying out um on the couch and and he would kind of like waddle over or like crawl over uh to the edge of the couch and kind of just like lay his head on the docker tot and stare at her. Yeah so like there was moments of you know oh he's just he knows that this is you know his person his people uh and he's you know exhibiting that but there was shortly thereafter I don't want to call it's not jealousy I don't think it's jealousy as much as it is just like competition for attention and you really don't see that as much until I think later on when they're when they're both moving around and and requiring the attention obviously Addie needs bottles and she's up in the night and you know those things I'm sure would get on his nerves if he wasn't the center of attention but yeah but it never really showed that way like it was very much like um independent like almost kind of like parallel lines yeah they're both on the same path they're at different stages and they didn't really interact or intersect much early doors.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01Then as they got a little bit bigger older moving around she's crawling pulling herself up then it became a a competition for for attention and you know wanting to be uh the focal point I think but yeah what was interesting for me and I don't know if you experienced this or maybe you didn't until they were a little bit bigger but I will say for Patrick and Ken's it was less about jealousy. Patrick was never a center of attention kid because he was in middle. So I feel like my experiences diverge from some of your experiences strictly from that perspective. I think that some of the stuff that you see with yours now is are are different in that Patrick and Kenzie didn't have the same things because they also had an older brother. So there so there were some some different things going on there. But I will say that when we brought Kenzie home number one I was overwhelmed because I was like well now we're outnumbered and that was not cool. You guys are a one-to-one ratio right so you've got someone can handle one and someone can handle the other one and it it logically it even if it doesn't actually work out in reality it evens out right for me that's how you justify it at least exactly 100% these are the lies we tell ourselves as parents but Patrick went through some regressions when Kenzie was born and part of it was almost like you could almost see that even at 14 15 months he had this overdeveloped sense of fairness and so for him why did Kenzie get a bottle but he had to drink out of a sippy cup and he would and he would steal her bottles from her so you'd hear her crying and you would go like check why and it's because Patrick's got her bottle in his mouth and it'd be like you know when she was even a little bit bigger and was drinking like juice out of a bottle like watered down juice or whatever he's he's taken it. And so it would be things like that. Or he would crawl into her crib. I guess because like well why not like I why can't I be in here if she gets to be in here why don't I get to be in here so it was less I I agree with you for for him it was less jealousy as well and but more about the well that's not fair. Yeah that's not fair. Like if she can do those things why can't I do those things?
SPEAKER_04Yeah I think there was some of that as well for for for Declan I I think the well no I know the biggest manifest manifestation of his regression was probably the pacifier he was he was latched onto that thing anyway but like we were attempting to wean here and there uh not really committing to it not doing a good job of it but you know attempting and Addy was never really a pacifier kid no like she never I mean she took it a handful of times and and I I mean that like I I'm not that's not even an exaggeration I genuinely think from the day she was born until now she's probably used and relied on a pacifier 10 times. Yeah like it was just not a thing for her she could care less. I think that because we had a bunch of pacifiers for her that she wasn't using or needing or whatever he kind of was like well then I'll use it or like then I'll take it but I mean we also fed into that and we kind of allowed him much longer than he should have to to rely on it. And that's just one example but I do think that as far as regression goes a lot of it is the attention a lot of it is the you know well you know if Addy's doing that I can do that or you know it even shows in like how they play with each other now. Like there's they're three and four and like if Addie wants to do something because she is hyper independent sometimes when she's doing her own thing and he doesn't want to be by himself he'll go and like do whatever she's doing. Yeah and it's like look I can play too you know or or like if you this is this is the biggest one now for me personally is Addy is like my little bestie. Addie's my buddy I'm I'm her dad I'm I'm her data she'll come and lay she'll we'll be sitting watching a show and she'll be on the other end of the couch and she'll crawl across the couch and she'll poke her little head up and she go oh when this she know go and I go sure bit and she'll just lay on me and that's just what we do. That's that's our thing when she does that and only when she does that Declan wants to snuggle too yeah Declan is not my little buddy. Yeah he is not my my bestie he does not uh want much to do with data uh a lot of the time but especially now as he's getting a little bit bigger and more independent he he doesn't rely on me or or lean on me as much as she does until she does. Yeah and then very much he wants to do everything she does. So that's one the other is she'll come up to me and like ask me for uppies. She still does I try really hard not to but she's so damn cute. So I'll I'll pick her up and then Declan who's four and doesn't want anything to do with me will then come up to me and like grab my shirt and say well I want uppies too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And he says it like that.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Like well I know but the because fair is fair right arms in the air hands up you know yeah and so there are there are those things that that do pop up and you can kind of tell like you're like oh okay yeah like that's that's his thing.
SPEAKER_01They have like they definitely have a bit of a push pull with each other for sure. And I like I joke all the time that the two of them are each other's best friend and mortal enemy. Yeah and that makes me giggle a lot too because they didn't really have that with Patrick and Ken's again because you were the element the other element for them. It was like they didn't have they weren't each other's best friends they were tight but they also both I think vied for your attention and actually you gave it to both of them like I don't think either one of them had more time with you than the other one did. You guys all played together and you were basically just their their big brother so you were sort of the buffer in a way to some of what I see between Declan and Addie they just they don't have that same thing.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_01Do you feel like do you have any concerns over their attachment to each other like and how it impacts how they socialize with other kids concerns no I shouldn't say no yes in the sense of like I still want them to be able to have that connection with other kids and like be able to socialize.
SPEAKER_04I see that they are able to and And have those connections. It's few and far between because they're they're only at daycare once a week. And you know, they just don't have a ton of yeah, social interaction right now. But like, you know, Lin Lynn's and and um her sister, uh Catherine, they'll take the kids uh because Cat Catherine also has a daughter who's Addie's age, um, just for the listeners. Uh so they all get together. Uh, they try to do like a weekly thing where they'll go out and you know, play at the playhouse and like let them interact with other kids. But the reason why I share some of the concern aspect is because they will interact with each other, yeah, or interact with their cousin.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_04And then they're good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like a lot of times, like they'll be in social situations or at school, at they call it school, at their daycare, with a ton of other kids, 12, 15, 20 other kids, and they'll still like choose to play with each other, chat with each other, yeah, and do things with each other. Like they'll Addy and Declan will like kind of get into it about who gets to ride in the buggy with with Oakland, right? Like, yeah, there there is that. And so, like, and now well, even most recently, they'll come home and I'll be like, Hey, like, you know, did you see your friends at school today? Yeah, well, who was at school? Well, Oakland was at school. I know Oakland was at school. I was I was with Aunt Catherine picking you up, right? You know, I I know who else was at school? I don't know. Yeah, like they just there's like a maybe a lack of interest or or paying attention to other kids, so there is that concern in that aspect, but I do feel like they get along with other kids. I'm not worried about it long term because they are so young, they're gonna have plenty of opportunities. I'm sure there'll be sports and instruments and things in the future that sort of by default will allow them to create those relationships and well develop their own like identities outside of each other, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and allow them to kind of be independent and be on their own in that uh finding that socialization and and you know adapting to to those relationships without the the I don't want to call it a crutch, but sort of that's like fallback of like, well, I don't have to because brother's here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04I I don't have to go talk to this person because I can hang out with Oakland.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um so so there is a concern because you want to see it happen and and happen healthily, but I I expect that too. Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it does make sense. And I think again, when I think back to my own Irish twin situation, I just didn't really have that same thing. And so for for Patrick and Ken's, it was actually more competition, and it wasn't even direct competition, it was always Kenzie was always pushing herself because she felt like whatever you guys were doing, she could do too. And for the most part, she was right. Like that that was sort of the reality. But I remember Kenzie was so pissed off on the day that Patrick started kindergarten. Yeah, and and I asked her, I was like, I was like, do you are you just gonna miss Patrick? And she was like, no. I mean, she was adamantly no. She was mad because she didn't get to go to and she didn't understand. So I will tell you the day she started kindergarten, she goes to get on the bus. I'm like trying to take her picture, and I'm like, bye, Ken's. She never even turned and looked at me. She was like, it was almost like this attitude of bitch, I got this and I don't need you. Like you can go away. But it was just years of that competition. So, like when Patrick was potty training, she's just like, what's so fucking special about this? And she potty trained at the same time. So while he was, you know, a full year older than she was, she was like, Well, I don't need to wear diapers anymore either. And she was like, I am out of here with these. A little bit, yeah. There was definitely that drive of like of like, well, I can do whatever they're doing, like they're just dumb boys, and I can do that. So, like, what makes that so cool? I know. Whereas you are you're in a different spot because they're not, I mean, I see competition between them, but it's it's not the same at all. They have like such a deep need for each other, and I just think it's hilarious because sometimes you'll see them go to walk like up a sidewalk, and um, and Addy will be like, Declan, hold my hand, or Declan will be like, Addie, hold my hand, and they'll just go, you know, walking along, holding hands.
SPEAKER_04They're little bodies, yeah.
SPEAKER_01They really are, they really are.
SPEAKER_04I do think that it'll be different in the kindergarten thing too, because when he goes to preschool or kindergarten, she will be upset.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_04It won't be as much um, like, what the hell? Like, I can do this. It'll be where's brother going?
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly. Exactly. So, one of the things that we try to do is when the kids come to visit, we try to do one-on-ones. And I'm I'm saying this for the the teabags, obviously, you know that already. And but it's for that reason, well, it works twofold for us. We we like to get the one-on-one time with them, yeah, because you really do get to see elements of their personalities that you don't get to see when the two of them are together because they come as a pair almost like twins. And and it's like you really get to see how they're expressing themselves and how they're learning and how their brains are working, and you know, each of the kids has their own little things that they like to do with with me or with your dad and and whatnot. But also when the other one is at home, they're very much like, okay, but when are they coming home? But when am I gonna get to see Addy? When am I gonna see Declan? And they're they're very they have such a strong bond.
SPEAKER_04For sure. Yeah, the even the most recent trip, I mean, Declan, who does adapt to the like solo time with us better, I think, than she does. Even he had a few days where he was like, When what day is Addie coming home again? Yeah, like how many days so Addie comes back? Yeah, so there is that sort of um, you know, connection, even even in the hyperindependence or like the excitement of spending time with mommy and daddy where you know he he is by himself and gets all the attention, he still has that like attachment to to when his sister's coming home, which is a is a cute thing, but it is, you know, there is that sign of you know, is this going to be difficult to sort of sever when they go to school or right, right?
SPEAKER_01And not sever, but just foster differently, like so that they're not feeling that they're not feeling like uh like an abandonment or uh that's not even the word I'm looking for. There's a different word I'm looking for, but but it's almost like a separation anxiety that they have with each other, right? Do you feel like the developmental stages for them are happening faster or slower because there are two of them?
SPEAKER_04Way faster, way faster. It's not particularly close. I do think that there are some things that are slower, namely his potty training, I think goes slower because I think, and this is me speculating, but I think there's part of him that doesn't want to potty train because Addy doesn't get in trouble for peeing in her underwear. Addie doesn't pee in her underwear because she she wears diapers, right? So there is this I don't know, maybe it's a disconnect between him and and the idea of being fully in underwear, but during the day, if he's distracted, if he's doing something, playing something, whatever, he will intentionally not go to the bathroom on time. And then now, because he's so damn smart, he'll take his underwear off, go potty, and then he'll sneak upstairs and grab a new pair of undies off of his dresser and put them on and come downstairs and act like nothing happened.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because he I I think there's the well, the one, like the fear of being in trouble for doing something he's not supposed to do, which he knows, and uh the the lack of commitment to wanting to keep dry undies, I think is some sort of manifestation of like this well, Addy doesn't get in trouble. Yeah, Addy doesn't have to do this, why do I have to do this? Yeah, that I think is slowed down a bit, but everything else, like how they uh receive information, like how they learn numbers and shapes and colors and all those things that we've got kind of gone through, has been so insanely accelerated because he learns something and then he gets to show Addy. Yeah, so it's like you know, oh no, you know, the orange comes after Red in the rainbow, Addie, and then he'll draw it. Or, you know, oh he'll turn he'll now, and this is so cool. He's four and he'll go, Dad, uh, what's 90 plus 90? And I'll go 180, and he'll go, Addy, it's 180. Like, like he's teaching her because I I gave him the answer, and he's like, see, Addy, like I knew it was that. That's like the new uh development, but that that I think is sort of allowing them to kind of feed off each other and bounce things off each other where they are retaining things. It is sort of naturally repetition, like yeah, for sure. Because they're they're saying it to each other or doing it on paper, they sing songs, they they dance, they they do all uh of these things together, and then like sort of by default, like they remember lyrics, they they remember names of songs and artists, and you know, uh uh that's a special one for for me, and and the listeners will understand when when we explain why. But music is such an important part of of our lives, Karen and mine specifically. Um, that like seeing my kids now sort of take to music and like want to uh they ask the sitter to play music, they ask you know, mommy and daddy to play stuff on their phone when we're cooking dinner or whatever. Anytime that they have an opportunity, they'll ask for for a song. And the and the song changes based on mood, but a lot of the time it's sort of the same, you know, few artists recently. Uh, but they they ask for songs and they know them by name, and like now, so so uh Lindsay is obsessed with this band called the Bancamino, it's her favorite band, and the kids know all of the Ban Camino songs because she plays them in the car, so much so that when a song starts, they yell out the title of the song before a single word has ever been sung. It reminds me a lot of the game that we played growing up with with dad and listening to DV and the and the Camry and who sings it, you know, and and we're listening to classic rock as eight-year-olds being like Motley Crue, or you know, whatever band we could remember at the time, but bite your tongue because that was not classic rock at the time that you were growing up.
SPEAKER_01You turred.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, it was 80s rock and it was 2004. Shut up. Shut up. Anyway, that was sort of the uh the upbringing that we had in in music, and so now like to see it early on uh for them um and have as like see their connection to it uh is really cool, really special. But that's sort of where they're at in you know their their uh stages, I guess, of development, where like they're just picking up on those things so quickly.
SPEAKER_01And even when one picks up on it and the other one says they don't like it, two days later, the one that didn't like it is asking for the same things. It's it is it's the same with the book reading with them as well. Like they're just it's like they're in and out of each other's pockets all day long, and so I think half the time they forget that they don't like shit because then they just like it because the other one does.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because they're along for the ride.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for real, for real. Do you see, like, do you think about what the competition of school and grades may look like? Are you because they are both so smart in such in such different ways, but they're they're both so bright. Are you starting to think of like different ways to encourage them to compete against themselves instead of each other? Like, and maybe not because they are so young, but I know sometimes when I'm with them, that is something that I I even think about. It's like, how do you get them to feel that sense of healthy competition from within and not use themselves as sort of some sort of yardstick?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean I mean, I think like you you kind of pointed out, they are young, so it's hard to kind of implement that, but it is something that's on the on the mind. There is sort of early stages of that, and I do think that that's gonna be a focal point just because they are so close and so you know on top of each other. That'll have to be sort of an approach that we take, but I don't worry so much about it, maybe until it's in front of us. Yeah, it's not something I anticipate being an issue, but who knows? Maybe it will be. But with them being as bright as they are and always sort of learning and and soaking up information. Um, I I don't think that school will be uh that much of a uh competition, as much as it'll be just like a thing that happens.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So maybe maybe, maybe it will be. Maybe that'll be something that they have, you know, a thing that they have where they they want to be better than the other and you know, study harder and all those things, and and that'll work out in our benefit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. So shifting gears a little bit, I can imagine, like, and and I know it too. Again, just like lived experience, like relationships sometimes suffer, friendships sometimes suffer because of the energy that's required to deal with kids, period. So I just think as people are starting families, like it does make connection sometimes more difficult. But when you're talking about the whole two under two thing, and you're going through almost all of those initial developmental stages, like double time, to your point, parallel lines, but it's it's at the same time, you know, and so it's like it's turbocharged, really. And so do you feel like that having two kids so close together has impacted, you know, your friendships, you know, timing, marriage, whatever, and then in what ways?
SPEAKER_04Sure, yeah. I mean it, I mean, yeah, the umbrella answer is yes, of course. I mean, uh every decision that you make affects uh, you know, your marriage and your friendships and all this, but but these sort of uh you know steps in your life and milestones that you reach as as humans uh come with um a concession or a sacrifice along the way. And I and I think that the biggest thing uh in regards to the parallel lines thing that you're you know, kind of touching on there is it is simultaneous, but it it doesn't it doesn't mean that the stress uh is just you know all happening at once. It's it's from every angle. It's both of those parallel lines are providing a different stress and and you know those add up. You know, it's hard to compartmentalize uh how you feel about a thing that happened during the day and be able to you know tuck that away and and you know talk to your partner about their day at work, or or you know, make that phone call to your buddy and and see how he him and his wife are doing, right? You know, it does add stress, it does take over a little bit, it it kind of envelops you a bit. Everything about you changes if you let it, right? And I think that's the big thing. Like you are in control of your own responses, your emotions, your how you handle things. It's a constant work in progress. Right. It never gets easier.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, yes, and I think that that is definitely important. I'm also thinking about it from the perspective of particularly male friendships, because they are so incredibly important. Oh, yeah. And you have the added layer of the fact that your friends, your longer-term friends that you've had since you were a kid, the longest terms, yes, live in Pittsburgh, they don't live near you. And in and you know, for a while you were playing like deck hockey out there, and you know, obviously then kids come along, and again, it's like it impacts your timing, your availability, things of that nature. And so that fizzled and kind of went away. And so, you know, I'm I'm thinking even more particularly of of like friendships, and you know, how do you how do you maintain those or set yourself up for success in keeping those connections?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I mean, I think I've been lucky with my lifelong friendships. I've befriended and maintained friendships with uh a bunch of really great guys in my life, but specifically these two or three guys that I kind of have come up with and and grown into adulthood with and have started living, you know, our own independent lives tangentially with with uh you know Evan and Gus and Ty. And you know, these guys have been uh a staple of of my life since I was, I mean, what four or five on that time? I must have been six or seven when I met Ev, like when we started playing baseball.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Something like that. I mean, they've uh literally my entire life. So I mean these guys, those three specifically, and and I and I do um I do mean to intentionally name them. I mean, they are three of the most phenomenal human beings I've I've had the pleasure of meeting.
SPEAKER_01Um they're my bonus boys, my bonus sons, yes.
SPEAKER_04Bonus boys. That's a good, that's a good group name. But yeah, I've I've been blessed with them because they are really good human beings and they they lead interesting lives and they do really cool, fun things with their jobs and uh their partners and their you know families that I've been sort of you know just kind of blessed to be along uh on the ride with. So those friendships um I've sort of always had this mentality or this feeling of like it doesn't we don't have to talk every day. Yeah, you know, we we we kind of just go through the motions of life and then like a couple months go by and I get a phone call and I'm like, oh hey buddy, how's it going? Yeah, and we're good. Like, and it's it's almost like you know, we pick up where we left off. And but as far as like day-to-day relationships or or friendships, it's it's tough, and it is with kids anyway, uh, or with life anyway, but then you add um, you know, kids to very close in age where your schedule's changing drastically, uh, your timing gets thrown off, everything that you're doing now becomes about them. And if you're lucky to have a little bit of free time, you hope that you can spend some of it, you know, doing something fun. Those friendships are harder to keep, I think, just naturally with with life happening. Um, but I I've even been blessed in in um some friendships in in that regard too. I mean, I have a uh buddy Brian, I call them buddies because they're not the same maybe level friend. Yeah, you have your your lifelong friends that are basically brothers, and then you got some buddies that you meet. Yep. Um, so I I got a couple of buddies, and and one of them who I met through hockey, and he's another gym of human, uh, really good dude, him and his wife. I who I had it was actually my roommate at one point, um Serena. They they're they're great people. They actually now have a daughter too. So he's going through that sort of life stage too, where he he kind of stopped playing hockey for a while too because of the kid, uh, which is funny, but you know, that's always a text or a call away. And I have another friend who funny enough, I met through Lindsay. Lindsay's I mean, basically her best friend, uh, that she worked in the restaurant business with her fiance or husband now. I don't want to misspeak, uh, Brock, really, really good friend of mine. Um, we became close obviously through them. Uh, they also just this morning, as we're recording this on Monday, the 15th of June, uh, just this morning had their second child.
SPEAKER_00Oh, congrats.
SPEAKER_04She gave birth this morning. I don't know names or any details yet, but uh I did see a picture and she's a cutie little chunk butt. But they just had their second this morning as well, and their oldest is a little younger than Addy. I won't say he's two in change. He just had a second birthday party not long ago. Similar, not the same, but similar situation um where they now have two uh very young and their lives change. I mean, we him and Brock and I talk all the time about uh work and and side jobs and schedules and trying to kind of manage this chaos. And he's a really good kid, he's got his head on right, and you know, so I've met some really good people that are also going through this life stage that kind of creates uh a little bit of camaraderie, right?
SPEAKER_01So it's it does, it does create a bond, yeah, for sure. That's awesome. Yeah, I will say I think for a little while for us, it it impacted us, and it was like we were we were in a little bit of a different spot because we were so young when we had you guys that like our friends, like high school friends, we didn't have anything in common with anymore. So there was a period of time where we weren't seeing our close friends, and then it was like then we met a second batch of friends when you guys started playing sports and going to school. And and some of those friendships are are fleeting, right? They're momentary, they're in a moment because and it speaks to that that thing that you're talking about. You're you are friends by circumstance because you're going through the same phases at the same time. And then, you know, we got lucky and that a couple of them stuck and we've stayed friends with, you know, a couple of them for, you know, twenty five years.
SPEAKER_04And great people.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. And and so, yeah, for sure, I think that there are people that that come along because, you know, you've got kids at the same time. Like they're
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the circumstantial stuff it it makes a ton of sense. I I I like the way you put that. I think that that maybe that's a foot in the door, right? It kind of opens that opportunity. Kids become friends, you become friends with parents. And that's sort of I mean, by default, what your relationship has been with a lot of the parents of kids that we grew up playing sports with. And sure, sure. But you know, sometimes you're lucky enough to meet the the really good ones and and uh you know hang on to them for forever, really.
SPEAKER_01I mean, what Connie's been 25 years, 25 years 27, something like that. Yeah, yeah, it's absurd. 25, yeah.
SPEAKER_04To to have essentially met through youth football or whatever baseball, whatever. You and Joel play baseball together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Forget which one was first. We played everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true. That is true.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, that that is true. That's sort of what I'm getting at too. We're like I've built relationships with the the especially the men in my life, like Ev Tai and Gus specifically. We have a uh long-standing history and and have been friends forever. And uh and now all of us are in that stage or or starting that stage for for you know, we're now you know, we all are married with kids, like we're all in that stage of life where we've we have this foundation that we built years and years and years ago that now it's like natural to be like, hey man, how are you and the kids? Yeah, hey, can we stop by and see you when we're in town this weekend?
SPEAKER_00Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04You know, and and it it's so natural, right? So this circumstantial aspect of it with you know some other friends, you know, yeah you have a different type of friendship, but it's similar in the sense of you're dealing with the same things, yeah, you're feeling some of the same emotions and stresses and struggles that like you kind of do, like you said, you build a bond and and hopefully that'll stick and you can kind of be like, Hey, you remember when remember when our kids were you know two and you were calling me the one night, but you know, whatever. Yeah, or hey, remember we did that side job because you were stressed about having a second kid? Yeah, like you kind of have those moments that you can kind of build on.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's and that's it, you have to build on them because it can't you it can't be any more just the circumstance of your kids were you know you were having them at the same time or they were friends or whatever. I also like the buddies designation because when I if I go back and think about I I recorded an episode with my friend Tim and he was talking about like I think with one of his kids being concerned that they didn't feel like they had like a best friend. And he was like, that's okay. He was like, actually, it's better to just have buddies, like it's great. You're you're gonna maybe have one or two people that are you're really, really close to in your life, and that's awesome. But like, that's sometimes all we get. Like everybody else is a buddy, and sometimes you just need your buddies to all be good at different things or all bring something different to the table. And that's like, well, that's your buddy who is really good at physics, and you know, you guys study together, and that's your buddy who is really good at the sport that you play, and you hang out because of the sport, and that's your buddy who plays the fucking tuba while you're playing the flute. Like, so so your buddies bring different aspects to your personality, and and Tim's opinion was that buddies are what keep you well-rounded.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_01They may not be forever friends, and that's okay because you got buddies.
SPEAKER_04It also allowed you to dip a dip a toe in a different circle, right? I mean, I I think I think that it's important to have friends that are from a certain aspect of your life or or you know uh a tangential thing that you did one time, right? Like I played hockey, roller hockey in a new area. I didn't know anybody. I joined the team that I joined because uh a Facebook post I think I saw and was like, hey, my team's looking for skaters. You know, message me if you're interested. I messaged a guy named John, who who's also a really good dude, and he was like, Yeah, we need guys, like if you can you could skate, like come meet meet us here and and come play. And I'm like, Oh, hell yeah. Like, I'll go to open hockey basically and meet some guys. He ends up being cousins with Brian. I meet Brian, I meet the guys on the team, and it's like now I got a couple of friendships, a couple of buddies, yep, that I play hockey with that now, like these other things are going on in our lives, and we're still like, you know, we still share each other's photos and you know, stuff like that. So it dips a toe, right? You you kind of meet a group of people that are like-minded or do you know do a thing together. I think that's cool. Uh, I also think that it's it's cool that like, hey, I don't do that thing anymore. I don't go play hockey, but I still know some of those guys and we still chat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04So that that aspect of it I think is really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. Back to the babies before before we before we wrap up. Well, no, I mean, I think friendships are really important. And I look, it's come up before on on the pod, like, and I think it's gonna come up again. I I think I'm actually gonna be talking to another set of my friends who have had like really strong male bonding, like male friendships. And I do think it's something that we need to talk more about because dudes, particularly as they enter like their 30s and 40s, it becomes super important to have foundational friendships like that. And and it tends to be more problematic for them when they don't. And so it is something that I like to shine a light on for sure. So happy to take that tangent, but yeah, bringing it back to the babes. So before we wrap, are there developmental or life situations that you are and or maybe are not looking forward to, particularly because they're so close in age? And I'm gonna say the one that you're not allowed to use because I think it's horrendously sexist and stupid, but it was definitely a thing that used to come up and get put in front of us all the time when Kenzie was born, like, oh, Patrick's gonna get really pissed because like his friends are gonna want to date her. And that's dumb as fuck, um, because who cares? But along those lines, like, are there things that you're like, yes, I'm super excited about this to see how this plays out? And also, no, I'm really super not excited about something else because of how I fear that might play out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, I think I'm most excited to see the development of their interests independent of each other. Um, I know that sounds broad, but I mean, when you think about it from a perspective of, you know, are they gonna be in band? Are they gonna play sports? Are they, you know, gonna be on the math team or whatever the thing is that they sort of gravitate towards, or or things, multiple things that they try to kind of see what path or what route either of them go, I think will be interesting. That'll feel like for me, that'll feel very like uh puppeteer, where I kind of just get to sit back and watch them do their thing and excel in the thing that they do. Um and and not I shouldn't say puppeteer, that it sounds like I'm controlling them. I don't mean it that way. I just meant I can kind of be you just get to sit back and watch the show. Yeah, I get to be a viewer. I I I want to I want to see the the show come to life um and kind of watch that. My assumption is that it'll be more joyous to see them choose a path and and that's different from from one another, yeah. Assuming they do, right? I mean, who knows?
SPEAKER_01But I it would be hilarious if they didn't because holy hell.
SPEAKER_04The one I mean, you know, maybe it's cliche, but I think because they're so close in age and and sort of so close in general, like to each other, um, I think puberty is gonna be tough. Not because puberty is like puberty is already difficult. Sure, yeah, it is a thing.
SPEAKER_01It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And now it's gonna be awkward and uncomfortable virtually at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I don't know who's gonna develop first and who's gonna go through the the stages first, but it could be at the same exact time, it could be years apart. It either way, it's going to be semi-traumatic thing for either or both of them, and they have to not only do that being maybe embarrassed or feeling a type of way about it to their parents, but also now to their sibling who happens to be basically the same age and going through some more things. Yeah, not only, I mean, again, it's like you're gonna have friends that are going through it, you're gonna go through it the same time as somebody else. It may not be awkward, it may not be uncomfortable uh in in regards to your sibling, but it can be, I think, because we're so close. And that is something that I'm not that I'm not looking forward to, but rather that I'm nervous for. Sure, sure. You know, but I mean, other than that, no, I mean they're they're smart.
SPEAKER_01They're well, it's also like it's all you know. You only know having two kids that are one year apart. That's that's your life.
SPEAKER_04So that's sort of like the nature of the conversation, too. Like, how does my life look different? How does my life change? What are the things that affect me? What am I worried about in regards to my kids that are a year apart? It's the only thing I know. It's the only thing in my adult life that's like had this sort of um you know energy and focus to this level, yeah, that like all I can do is wonder or speculate or hope that things are gonna happen a certain way. Not nothing's gonna happen the way that I anticipated or hope it to. I recognize it.
SPEAKER_02At least you know it now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm I'm smart enough to recognize that you know things are gonna be drastically different than what I anticipate them to be, but that anticipation is the excitement. That anticipation is the you know, maybe curiosity coming out and like seeing how it's gonna manifest for each of them, yeah, independently, and then also like how it how it sort of feeds this cool relationship that they have together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. All right, it's that time. It's three good things about your week. You know the drill, I don't even have to explain it to you. So rolling seven days a week ago.
SPEAKER_04We were in Pittsburgh. We were able to come out and make the trip, which is awesome. It's always fun to be out there, be back home, so to speak, and uh, you know, get the kids out there. They they love being a Karen and Coach's house. Yes, they do. They have now, because of that trip, latched on to the idea of feeding the birds and the chipmunks and squirrels. So we we did buy a bird feeder that'll be here in a couple days, and we got some peanuts for the squirrels. So uh that was inspired by the Pittsburgh trip. But that week, or I'm sorry, a week ago when we were in Pittsburgh, that was um really exciting for me because that was my birthday weekend. We went to a concert uh for one of my favorite artists. We got to see Teddy Swims live in Pittsburgh and he was awesome. So that's probably number one. Number two, I do think I'm I'm gonna kind of take that uh that piggyback, that one for the the kids being so excited about the birds because uh it's just a joy uh watching them be excited about stuff. It's bird watching, right? It's it's kind of silly, but it it's so fun to bite your fucking tongue.
SPEAKER_01It's not silly, it's awesome. It's nature, it's meditative. Yeah, we make friends with the birds.
SPEAKER_04We sure do. We just walked my third thing, I'll I'll tell you here in a second. We we walked the bike trail, uh, the local bike trail down the street from our house. Uh the kids have been hounding us to go walk this trail for for a day or two, and you know, we went out and it was balls hot. And I had worked all day and I was tired and whatever, but you know, hanging out with them, and it was kind of just like, you know what, let's let's go for a little little stroll. So we ventured ventured over to the bike path, and we got to see a whole bunch of well, the bike path itself was very cool. The park is cool. There's like disc golf and and all kinds of cool stuff there, little, little creeks and rivers that we could walk on, bridges over. Uh the kids love that. But then we also got to just see like a bunch of animals. There were 25 squirrels. There were so many squirrels.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04There's birds and and then you know, geese in the river, and then uh a groundhog. And on the way out, we were walking back towards the house. It's surrounded on on both sides by woods, and we kind of hear a rustling in the tree, and we look over, and there's just a a mama deer just hanging out in the trees. Yep, literally like four feet away from from Addy. And she like kind of turns and and she just picks her hand up and waves and goes, Hi dear. Yep. It's like she's just so precious. But that's sort of the the joy that I get is kind of seeing them have that excitement and and happiness that it brings them.
SPEAKER_01So the joy through their eyes, you're watching you're watching them experiencing joy of or you know, around something, and that brings you joy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, which is you know the coolest part of parenting, I think, in general. But that moment um was was definitely number two slash three. I think getting the bird feeder and and getting them excited about having the squirrels come eat peanuts and stuff is it that's fun, yeah. For like to see the nature, but also fun because I get to see them be excited about something. So now every day when I see Declan, he goes, How many days until the bird feeder's here? Yeah, three more days. Yeah, he'll tell me that two more days until the bird feeder's here. He told me that today. Yeah, I'm like, You're right, buddy. He didn't even say hi to me when I came home.
SPEAKER_01No, well, because you don't matter, but that bird feeder does.
SPEAKER_04It's gonna be here in two days, and you're gonna know about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's exactly right. So for the the tea bags, when the kids were here, I have a bag of peanuts that actually I bought for them because they also like to pull peanuts apart and eat them right out of the shells. And I said, I was like, guys, come on, I have a chipmunk in the backyard who lives in the backyard. So we have Chester the chipmunk, and we hide peanuts in a couple of places, and we don't only put them out like once a week. I don't want him to get super dependent on us putting out food. So maybe once a week. And so the kids went out and they like hid a couple little piles of peanuts, and then they lined the platform of the shed, and then every so often during the day, Declan or Addie would run into me and be like, Karen, some of the peanuts are gone. Chester got the peanuts, and it's like it could be Chester, it could be a bird. Like, we don't actually know, but they were so convinced that Chester was getting the peanuts. So yeah, it is it is pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_04Chester's the homie, he was eaten like a king.
SPEAKER_01Well, Chester's not just one guy, there are a couple of chipmunks now that live in the backyard. We just call them all Chester. The collective, the collective, Chester, the chipmunk, but yes, Chester and the Chipmunks.
SPEAKER_04What a great band name.
SPEAKER_01Right. Anyway, those are three really, really good things. Thank you very much. I appreciate you spending some time with me and chatting about the babies, which are actually like my favorite topic.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, of course.