At My Kitchen Table
Welcome to At My Kitchen Table, a conversational, interview-y podcast where I have a good yap with a guest!
When I was growing up, the kitchen table was the conversation center in a lot of homes. At my grandparents' house, friends and family alike were welcomed with connection as much as with drinks and food. In my parents' house, that tradition continued as my siblings and I would post up and chat with my mom as she cooked or baked or tried to read a book (with much exasperation as we refused to shut up). I found cozy similarity at my friends' homes with their parents, too.
Keeping with tradition, I create a space for everyone who visits my table, where we get to share a little bit of our journeys together - roses, thorns, and stems.
Interested in recording your story with me? Email me at atmykitchentablepod@gmail.com!
At My Kitchen Table
Guest: Erica Cochran
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Teabags, I love it when I meet people who are "doers" in life - the people who see a need and figure out creative ways to fill it. Erica Cochran pulls up a seat at my kitchen table today to talk about how she’s intentionally modeling action over acceptance for her kids when they see something that isn’t fair, and how in one recent instance, that action resulted in co-founding a business with her daughter!
She also dives into becoming a Disney family, trauma-informed coaching, how girls always know when they are secondary, and why you shouldn't call your kids’ college coaches.
Get cozy!
This week's small business spotlight is on Game On, Girls!
Search Game On, Girls! on Facebook and find them on Instagram @gameongirlsapparel
Order from Game On, Girls at https://gogapparel.com
Intro riff by Dale Lytle (concert husband).
All content edited (I use that term very loosely) by Karen Shaak.
This week's At My Kitchen Table Small Business Spotlight shines on Game On Girls. Game On Girls is a Pittsburgh-based female-owned girl sports apparel brand on a mission to help girls wear their confidence. Created by a softball player, Game On Girls designs apparel that celebrates female athletes and reminds every girl that she belongs in the game. You can find and follow them on Facebook and Instagram, or shop the collection and learn more at G-O-Gaparrel.com. Erica Cochran pulls up a seat at my kitchen table today to talk about how she's intentionally modeling action over acceptance for her kids when they see something that isn't fair. And how in one recent instance that action resulted in co-founding a business with her daughter. She also dives into becoming a Disney family, trauma-informed coaching, how girls always know when they are secondary, and why you should never call your kids college coaches. Get cozy.
SPEAKER_00Okay. May and June. We went to Florida twice, and that was enough. They were like big vacations, like Disney and Orleans and um Universal. Oh, okay. So they weren't even like relaxing. Like we got home and I was like, okay, and we're done. No more vacations, right? We have softball every weekend anyway, but it was nice to like kick off summer with those and then be done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So now we're just kind of smooth sailing.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. How did you find Disney? Have you are you like a Disney family? Like, do you go a lot or no? First time.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to call me, I'll call us Disney a Disney family. We have become a Disney family. We have friends who were like Disney people, and they were the minute we had kids, like we're like, we're going, let's go. So we've been four times. Oh my gosh, okay. And every time, you know, we have to like up the experience, right? Like, well, we did this last time, so now we have to do this and buy this pack, you know. It just gets more and more expensive every time. Sure does. But I I really do love it. Okay. Because my kids love it. Fair enough. Like, it's not a vacation for me. I enjoy, do I enjoy like eating and drinking and walking around? Absolutely, but it's not for me. It's for them.
SPEAKER_01No, totally. There's an element of a lot of different types of vacations, I think, that we would come home from vacation feeling like we needed a vacation from our vacation.
SPEAKER_00And that is one of them. Disney, any any theme park, right? Universal is the same way. I got home and I was like sore and tired, and I got like no sleep, right? And ate like all this junk and just felt gross. Of course, the theme park vacations are not my favorite for myself. Yeah. I would rather be laying on a beach.
SPEAKER_01Sure. But yes, totally.
SPEAKER_00I totally relate to that. So I was happy to, I'm happy, was happy to do them. Grateful we we got to do them, but happy that they were over quick and now we can just kind of chill.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And just like sail into the rest of the summer and then back into the school year. Yeah. And if something fun pops up, great. We'll go do it. But if not, we're good. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I appreciate you joining me today. This is super cool. I was really excited when Blaze reached out and she was like, I have the perfect guest for you. Like, I think you're gonna love her. So yeah, just appreciate you being here. Of course, thank you. We are gonna talk about a bunch of things today, but really centered around the company that you just started that just launched this month, which is really awesome. Um, but before we dive into that, I would love it if you would just briefly introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So my name is Erica Cochrane, and like you said, I am the co-founder of Game on Girls with my daughter. And yeah, I have two daughters, and I am a I would like to call myself an advocate for women's sports. That's kind of where I'm at in my life right now. It's the title I would give myself.
SPEAKER_01I love it. I love it. So I'm sure like we're gonna get into a whole bunch of things around like how you got into being more of an activist around sort of women's sports. I and I would say other areas of activism as well. But I kind of want to start with game on girls. So would love it if you would kind of give me the backstory as to how this even came about. Because as you mentioned, your daughter is a co-founder, but you don't have like an adult daughter. You've she's what? She's nine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So would love it if you would dive into that a little bit. Well, I have to give her all the credit. This was 100% her idea. Yeah. She dragged me along, right? Like, I was not like, hey, let's do this. She was like, Mom, we're doing this. Yeah. So the the short backstory is, and if you're familiar with the baseball softball world, you know that there's a brand out there for baseball, and it's very popular, and all the boys are wearing it. So all the boys in her grade and the boys she's friends with, like, it's everywhere. Yep. And it's awesome. It's like bright colors, super fun patterns, and she loves it. She wants, she loves baseball, so she plays softball, but she's, you know, she's sitting on the couch watching every Pirates game every night. Like she loves it. So she's like, Mom, can I have some of this these clothes? Sure, why not? We go to dick's, we're looking at all the stuff. She's like, Oh, it all says baseball on it. I'm like, Well, you like baseball? You can still wear baseball stuff. Like, you know, and she's like, Yeah, all right. I was just hoping there'd be like something that said softball. Then she tries it on. It's all boy sizes, it doesn't fit her. And you know, everything's her, the pants are falling to her ankles. They, you know, she's too tight. It's it just doesn't, it's not made for that, it's not made for girls. Right. And again, it's a baseball brand, right? I'm not naive to that. So we walked around, let's see if we can find some softball stuff. There's gotta be some softball stuff in here. Not one softball shirt or softball related shirt or even gender neutral shirt in that store. She was beside herself. She's so upset. So she comes home, she's all upset. I want to write them a letter, the company that we're talking about. I said, go, let's do it. Let's write them a letter. Like, let's tell them that, you know, we love their stuff, but we would love it if there was some softball stuff or some girl sizes. Right. So my cousin, who is super into like social media, she's a content creator, she's like, No, no, no, no, we're not writing a letter, we're making a video. So we make a little video. I don't know how to do it. She did it all, right? We we made her do it. So we write that, we make this video, we tag them, everyone shares it. Got like 22,000 views. And it's it was really cute. It was her just explaining like why she loves softball and why she feels that girls should have the same clothes as boys in terms of sports. They see it, they reach out, they were very kind and said, you know, your daughter's awesome, good for her for advocating for girls, but but no. Yeah. That was really, and we were like, okay, you know, they sent us some clothes, which again was very kind, but the point is that she can't wear the clothes. We didn't really have a use for them. Anyway, they say no, I read her the email, I tell her what they say, and she's like, Well, now what? And that's just how my daughter, that's just who she is. She's always been that way, not just in terms of like boys versus girls, but just like when things aren't fair or like there's injustice anywhere around her, she's like, Well, what are we gonna do about it? Like, she is that's just who she is. So I knew where this was going. Yeah. I'm like, you know what, Kelly, I can't, I I can't make clothes, you know. I don't know that's not in my wheelhouse. So I don't know, let me think about it. And I have a cricket, so I think in her mind she was like, we can just make some shirts, you know, and just start a company. And yeah, so I had to kind of like talk her down a little bit, and then we thought about it some more. And I was like, you know what? We can do something about this. Let's, you know, so I just sort of reach out to my network. I have a pretty good network of just people who have different skills and just talking to people about different things. And a couple months went by and I was like, I think we can do this. Yeah, I think we can make some clothes. And we're very realistic about it, right? We're starting small, we're just doing tanks, tees, and sweatshirts because I'm not trying to get in over my head here. Because again, this is all I'm learning, we are learning as we go. Yep. But I think she's on to something, right? There's a gap in the market. There are no soft, there are brands that also have like a few softball options, but there is no softball brand when it comes to non-equipment, right? Right? Just cute, stylish, you know, and I'm comparing it again to this baseball brand that if you're familiar with you, you you know where I'm going with this. It doesn't exist. Yeah. And she's just so adamant that like girls should have the same things as boys. And she's not wrong. She's not wrong. I don't, and I want to support her in that. That's my job, right? As a mom to be like, you know what, you're right, and we are gonna do something about it. And if it works, fantastic. Right. I'm not trying to build like a million-dollar empire here. I'm just trying to make girls like her who feel that way because you know they're out there, sure, be seen and be included and feeling, you know, that that's my goal here. And and if it doesn't work, that's okay too, right? Like I'm trying to teach her that when there is something wrong or something that we don't think is fair, you can do something about it. You don't let a man tell you no, right? You do it, you do something about it if you want. If that's the route you choose to take it. If it's that important to you. Right. Yeah. Let's go for it. And if it doesn't work, okay, we pivot, we try something else, or we move on, whatever. But you don't sit back and just accept something that you are really strongly that feel really strongly about, like she does. Right.
SPEAKER_01So that's where we're at. That's awesome. Yeah. So I do want to dig into the some of the business stuff a little bit. So if we go back to, you know, you you do get outreach from this company, which is great. And I know you're not trying to throw them under the bus. They were they were respectful and kind, and that's great. Did was there any indication of like why, or was it just no?
SPEAKER_00It was more um, and and don't quote me on this, something to the effect of we have our hands full right now with what we're doing.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Very kind of generic blanket, no.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Yeah. It is just interesting because when you think about the fact that there is this gap in the market, and because historically speaking, other types of businesses, when they tap into markets that appeal to women, I mean, they do extraordinarily well. I was shocked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was shocked that the answer was no. I thought just slap the word softball on a shirt and be a hero, a hero. We already have this established, wonderful company with a brand brand recognition, like that's what I would do, right? Sure. You know, and maybe that's in the works, and maybe they didn't want to tell me that. And that's fine also. Sure. But yeah, I think another part of it is, and even if they would have said yes, and there was a shirt in the store the next day, the fact is, is that girls always know when they're secondary. They're not stupid. They see it in marketing, they see it in branding, they see it on the shelves. Like my nine-year-old daughter recognizes it. So, again, let's say tomorrow they do come out with softball stuff. The girls know that you spent three to four years just making boys stuff. That's right. You conquered baseball first, and girls were a secondary thought. Again. Again, like they always are. Yes. So it doesn't, you know, sure it would be great, but it doesn't fix the problem. Right. Right. Is that no one thinks about girls first.
SPEAKER_01Right. So when you decided, okay, we're just gonna go for it, how did you go about doing that? Because you had to, to your point, you don't sew, you don't design clothes, you don't. So who did you reach out to first to sort of get the ball rolling?
SPEAKER_00So I have a friend of a friend who designs clothes. She lives in Texas, and she has just a very high-end luxury clothing line that she does herself, very unique one, one-of-a-kind pieces, not like mass manufacturing or anything like that. Right. She connected me with her and we sat and we had a few conversations just about like, is this even feasible? Here's what I'm thinking from your, you know, you know the market very well. You know the manufacturing side, the fabric sourcing side. She knows all that. Sure. Shout out to Cass because she walked me through this from start to finish. And and we came to the conclusion that, like, yeah, we can do it and she can help. And like, I would not have been able to do it without her help. I mean, she really designed everything. We patented the designs, we did all the die cuts. I mean, like, fabric source, she's sending me things in the mail and washing things and testing them. I mean, like, it was eye-opening. I learned a ton. But without her help, yeah, there's no way I would have been able to do it.
SPEAKER_01Talk a little bit about some of the things that you learned because you're saying, like, there are so many things that you just said, just in these couple of sentences, where I was like, okay, what does go into feasibility? And obviously, you're looking at fabrics and how much do you think you can sell, and how do you narrow it down to how many designs you want to launch with, and what is the manufacturing process?
SPEAKER_00And very stressful. I mean, running your own business no matter what that business is, is not um a walk in the park. No. But, you know, she really helped me understand the entire process from how many should be in our initial inventory, right? How to not get in over our heads in that respect, how to treat the first round of inventory as kind of like a sample, right? Like we're seeing who, you know, what sizes go, who's buying them, what areas are people buying them from, right? Is it local? Is it far away? Are we out of state? Right. She's like, you can't assume that you're gonna just like be raking in money after this first, you know, 100-piece inventory. And you know, I did say to her, like, oh, I don't know, that seems kind of small. And she's like, trust me, it's not like you you want to sell out, you want to really like test it. It's almost that's what a launch is. Yeah, it's like a tester, essentially. So I think without her kind of talking me down, like I had bigger ideas. Sure. You're like thousands of this stuff and we're gonna make all these girls happy. And she was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's let's rewind here. You you're gonna get in over your head, then you're gonna be stuck with a ton of inventory that's not gonna sell, right? So she really helped me kind of narrow down sizes, right? We're gonna do small, medium, medium, large, large, extra large instead of 10 different sizes, right? To kind of like, because they're athletic clothes, so they're not fitted, they're a little bit baggier. This, you know, the oversized look is like very popular with that age group right now. So she's, you know, even just that, she's very in tune with what trend thinks. Yes, yeah, which I'm like not sure. You know, I know what we wear to practice, and that's it. So she really helped me realize that like it's not go big or go home, it's baby steps. Yeah, right. So she she went to, she has a person, a fabric person, because that's her that's her thing. And she went to them and got me some samples, you know. I she shipped them to me, and then we like pull, you know, gave them the run through, like pulled them apart, washed them a bunch of times, you know, rubbed them all over to make sure they were soft enough. And so we picked the pick the fabric, she sourced it, she came up with all of the designs, hand designed every single piece. Okay, yes, and we own those designs. So if we choose to go to a different manufacturer at any point, we take them with us, which is great. Awesome, and again, things I would have never known to do. Sure. She was like, no, no, no, you need to protect your designs, right? Like, I I would have been like, sure, here. There's all this stuff, you know. So all those little nuances that come along with this. And I've just, hey, I've just been taking notes, right? And she's there for me as well. Like, she's like, we're done, right? We ordered the initial inventory, but like it will be ongoing with her. Like we have a partnership, we have a deal set up, right? So when I'm ready for round, you know, round two, we'll sit down and we'll talk about what sold and what didn't, and maybe what feedback we got from people that they didn't like in terms of like fit or fabric, and then we'll make the adjustments so that we keep getting better. Yeah. And that small inventory, that sample inventory helped us get there. Yeah. So that we're essentially perfecting it when we get to the point where we are ordering thousands of things.
SPEAKER_01It's like you're building the plane on the fly a little bit. And but there's something I think that's really kind of awesome and healthy about doing it that way and doing the baby steps that you're doing. And I also think it's such a great learning experience for your daughter. Yes. So, as co-founder, what parts is she involved in? Is she involved in every single step?
SPEAKER_00Like, I'm almost forcing her to be, and she wants to be. I shouldn't say forcing, but if if she's home, like we were doing some things obviously during school year, but if she's home and there's a meeting with me and Cass, she's I'm parking her right next to me and and she's gonna be a part of it. Or we're driving to get things printed, or we're designed, like she designed the shirts. Okay, she did, she came up with the design, she picked the pattern. So we only have we have one design that is like the fun design that she designed, and then we just have like the logo as well. So those are our only two designs right now. Obviously, there will be more, but she did it. It's it's all her, you know. And I had her try on the sample shirts, right? Do you like this? Do you not like this? Where do you wish it was shorter? Where do you wish it was longer? Like, I'm really trying to encourage her to kind of be the final say in this. Like, this is what you wanted to do, so you need to step up and do it. Sure.
SPEAKER_01Well, there is a little bit of okay, it's time to put your money where your mouth is, kind of a thing, where it's like, okay, so this is what happens when we identify a gap or a need. It's like, how much of that need do you really feel passionate about?
SPEAKER_00Because it's one thing to say, oh, this is gonna be so fun. Right. And I'm gonna design shirts and I'm gonna be, you know, my face is gonna be here or there, but you gotta do the work too. So yeah, she's there have been a couple times where she's like, Oh, I don't want to drive, you know, to wherever or drop off these things. Yeah, it's not surprising, right? Okay, but that's this is your job essentially, right? This is what you need to do. And she's been great about it. I think that at the end of every step of the way, like, she's still excited. Yeah. And she cannot wait to like send it all out to her friends, and you know, yeah, that's what's important.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so you landed on two designs. How and you is the 100 pieces, that's not hyperbole. Did you do a hundred pieces? Literally a hundred pieces will be the first inventory. Okay, yeah. And what is it shirts only right now, or are there pants or shorts?
SPEAKER_00No, just just the tank, a tank top, t-shirt, sweatshirt. That's it. We're just doing tops. It gets a little, it gets obviously more pricey and a little bit more in depth when you do bottoms. That's the plan, is to expand. I mean, like ideally, if this all goes according to plan, we're doing all the things, right? But I just didn't want to get in over my head. Perfect. So and then talk a little bit about funding.
SPEAKER_01So, what does it mean when you start a business like this?
SPEAKER_00It means you are broke. Because that's where we're at right now. I mean, I if you ask my husband, I picked the perfect time to do this because I stepped away from my job in January. So it was like, okay, so not only did I step away from my job, but we're gonna pour a ton of money into this cool business. And shout out to my husband, who is like the most the greenest of green flies of husbands. Like he is just like, do you, yes, girl, like on my daughter's side, 100% super supportive. But it's been a little stressful. I'm not gonna lie, you know, like we are the funding to answer your question. Yeah, it's us. You know, now when we get bigger and we have a little bit more of a track record and a success rate, are we gonna look into other options 100%? But we have to get there on our own first. Of course. So it's it's been it's been tough. It's been tight. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, but it's important to all of us in our house. So, you know, we're all putting it as a priority.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. That's awesome. So you're modeling activism through this, and you're doing it in such a healthy way, you're not allowing your daughter to sit back and complain about a thing. Not that she it sounds like she would have. It sounds like she was pretty much like, you know, what are we gonna do about it? Yeah, which is awesome. But you're getting active to make a change where you can. This is obviously something that didn't start for you with this company, right? So I want to shift gears and talk a little bit about your journey. Sure. What kind of a kid were you? Because it sounds like your daughter's pretty like, she's she's spotting things, she's observant, she and she kind of knows like what she wants. And were you that same kind of kid?
SPEAKER_00It's hard to say because her and I have vastly different experiences as children. Sure. She, and not to make make me and my husband sound super wonderful, but we are providing an environment for her to be like that, and we are encouraging her to be like that. Sure. Because I don't feel like either of us were encouraged to be like that, especially me as a girl. I was not encouraged to speak up for myself or stand up for myself or do all the things that I want her to do. So I think I became like that later in life. Okay, more as as an early adult. Okay. Um, definitely not as a child, but only because that wasn't the environment I was raised in. Sure. So I think that's what the difference. She's doing things a lot earlier than me.
SPEAKER_01Right. Because of that. Okay. And and you were born and raised in Pittsburgh, yeah. Born and raised in Pittsburgh. Never left. Never left. Awesome. That's like a true Pittsburgh. Love it. When did you start playing softball? Oh, I don't I don't remember remember not playing softball.
SPEAKER_00I want to say five or six.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Now, did you start like t-ball level or did you always play just softball?
SPEAKER_00I don't think I ever played T-ball. Again, I can't remember not playing, but I think it was softball, probably around six then. So no t-ball, just softball.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I there are some parallels there too. Softball was the sport I played the longest, though I never made the transition to fast pitch. It was always slow pitch softball for me. And I stopped basically like right after high school. I think I played like a year maybe in a women's league, and that was it for me. But I played from a pretty young age as well. What are some of the things that softball provided for you? What did you love about it?
SPEAKER_00So going back to kind of our childhoods being vastly different, yeah. Softball was like my safe space. Okay. Right? And like I lived, I lived in the city, so it was like, you know, no one drove me to practice. I walked out the door and I walked down the block and I walked over to the park right by myself. So it was almost like an escape. I didn't grow up in a very safe household. It was chaotic and a lot of uncertainty, not a lot of stability. So leaving and going to practice by myself, alone, away from the chaos, and being really good at something as well, and receiving praise from other people and positive comments and just being like in that environment, it was everything to me. It was it was all I had at the time. So I think that's why it's so ingrained in me that like softball is my safe space. It still is as an adult. I don't even need it to be, but it still is. But it still is, you know? Yeah. So I think that's why it's always been such a constant in my life, right? Like I played, I played up until college and then I started coaching, right? I've never been without it in some capacity. Right. Because it just has always been a constant staple for me, and it was so important as a child for me.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. And again, a lot of relatability there. I also grew up in a in a traumatic space, probably not the same because I would say I had stability. It just was not great. Like it was stably not great. That was the stable part, actually. Yeah. And so I think I had an element of that though I definitely didn't take it as seriously. That was never a thing for me. But I was always the kid that was like anything I could be doing outside of the house so that I didn't have to be inside the house. So I definitely understand, you know, what you're talking about. You played in college, you said. Did you um was that something you were recruited for? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, out of high school, I was recruited to, and again, stayed here close. I didn't go far. I didn't want to go far. So picked a school close and played. But yeah, it wasn't even an option like to not play in college. Like I was gonna keep playing. Yeah. You know, and I knew, I think I knew that college was the end of the road at that time. Now it's not, which is a whole different story, and it's so amazing for the girls now. But at that time, that was it. That was as far as I could go. So it was like, I'm getting my extra four years in. Of course. Yeah, I'm gonna ride this as long as I possibly can. Absolutely. What positions did you play? Um, I'm a catcher. Oh, okay. I was a catcher. I shouldn't say I am a catcher.
SPEAKER_01These knees can't do that anymore, but I was. That is, in my opinion, one of the toughest spots on the field. Hands down. I was never my I never played that position ever. But yeah, like that's why I like it. Yeah, yeah. You got a lot riding on you as a catcher.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, like you're like in charge.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I mean you're like the field general in a way. 100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I like that.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. What did you major in in college? So, what was like that parallel path? What was going on as you're, you know, you're riding the softball thing into the sunset?
SPEAKER_00I want to be clear. So as a child, like I I'm not a good student, I never was. So like as a child, it was like on my rapport card, like Erica comes to school to socialize, not learn. Like, I can't even tell you how many times. And that was, and I say that because like that was I Erica came to college to play softball, and and my degree was secondary, right? Like as an adult in hindsight, I like cringe when I say that, but that's very much how I treated college was to play more softball. And that's it, right? And if I get a degree while I'm here, great, awesome. My major was sociology, which I loved. I loved every minute of it. It was the best, and I think obviously has led me, has helped kind of, you know, in hindsight. I look back at my path and I'm like 100% everything I learned through earning that, you know, was is because of that. But I loved sociology.
SPEAKER_01How'd you get how'd you land on sociology? Especially if you were like not really caring about school that much, and you're just there to play softball and I did a collective.
SPEAKER_00I had yeah, like you know, when you're a freshman, you have to take X amount of collectives. I took took a sociology class and fell in love with it and changed my major the next semester. Oh, okay. So you had a major. I was a science major, which like, oh my god, that would have never. I don't even know what I was thinking. That lasted a whole semester. Okay. And then I was I took that sociology class and I was just like, this is perfect. I mean, it's it's exactly how my brain works, right? You're learning about other people, where they come from, their culture, how you know, what makes them tick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was, I was just like, wow, this is what I need to be doing.
SPEAKER_01And it's a more macro level than psychology, which is, you know, so focused more on individual and you know, but with sociology, it's more focused on systems. Like, how does all of that information impact the systems and how we live? Yeah, that's really awesome. So, what did that do for you career pathwise?
SPEAKER_00So, everyone who was a sociology major, like, and I mean everyone, this is not a generalization. Like everyone in my major was like, well, we're gonna go get our degree in social work or master's. That was just like the next step, right? That's just what you do. And I was like, all right, I guess that's what I'm gonna do too. Because I knew myself that if I took a break, I was not gonna go back to school because I didn't enjoy school. I just that's not, I'm a hands-on learner. I don't like sitting in a classroom and I was like, all right, I gotta do this now, so I just keep it going. Right. And I had a wonderful, wonderful advisor who literally changed my life. And I don't even know if he knows this, but he sat me down and he said, Do you want to be a social worker? And I said, No. And he said, Then why would you go get your master's in social work? I said, Well, what else am I gonna do with a sociology degree? Yeah. And he goes, just go work. Go work. And I was like, where? And he's like, anywhere, I don't care. He's like giant eagle, I don't care. Just go work and meet people and learn different skills. And like, you will use this. This degree can be used in so many different ways. Yeah. He's like, You're a people person, I know you. He's like, You're not gonna be a social worker, go work. So I did. So I went and I got, you know, I did a couple like case management jobs. I did a little bit of like I worked at a food pantry for a little bit, like I did basically social service type stuff. I worked in a prison for a minute. Okay. Like, really kind of I got a lot of experience. I took his advice to heart. I really did. And I did, I grabbed a lot of experience from different places, and then I ended up landed a fundraising role within a nonprofit and fell in love with it. And that's what I've been doing ever since.
SPEAKER_01That's really awesome. And it's really interesting to me how your path mirrors. I've only ever talked to one other sociology major on the pod. And one of the things that she talked about was um she she did mostly do social work when she came out of school, but she jumped from sort of industry to industry. So she did time at like CYS. She spent some time in the prison system, she spent some time in healthcare working for one of the hospitals. And through all of that, landed on I want to go back to school for clinical psychology because that was the point. And this will always stick with me, I think, forever and ever. Amen. She basically was like, that was when I felt like I was qualified enough to sit across from somebody and talk to them about what was going on with them specifically because I had spent time in all of these different systems and working in all of these different communities. And so it's funny when I listen to you talk about this advisor who probably changed your life. He did change your life, right? You don't often get advisors like that, frankly. And the fact that he basically was kind of giving you the advice that you know, my other guest figured out on her own too as she went, is really incredible. Like that sort of hands-on diving into your community experience.
SPEAKER_00I'm so grateful for that because had he not told me that, I definitely would have just gone to school and got my master's of social work and who knows what I would be doing right now. And still great work. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure, but it's just like it at eight, you know, picking a major at 18 is one thing because who the heck knows what who you're gonna be at that point. But at 23, you still don't know what you want to be when you grow up, right? Like you should go out there and work and try different things and test the waters. I didn't want to be stuck with a master's degree in something that can only be used for one specific thing, right? So yeah, I'm very happy. You know, I don't I I can't say I have a master's degree at this point, but I have a ton of experience and I'm very happy with with my career.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. That's really awesome. And so through all of college, so you played, and then when you got out, did you dive into coaching right away? Was there ever a gap or no?
SPEAKER_00I want to say like maybe half a year. Okay. And me and my friend who went to college with me, okay. We started coaching a travel team for like their, I think they were 12 and 13.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because we just we were the same way. We were like, we just have to stay in it. And I also we also played for like a PSL league, you know, like a slow pitch league, which was like the only action we could get. So we're like, we'll take it. Um we played there for like a couple years too, and yeah, went right into coaching. And so you've been doing that now for a number of years, right? I took a little break when I had the girls. Sure. So I took probably about I'd say a six-year break from coaching when I had the girls. And then the minute my oldest started playing T-ball, we were, I was like, I'm right back. Here I am, yeah, right back in it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, that's so great. So this has kind of shaped like the fact that you've now you've been a player where it was your safe space. You've been a player where you were like, this is the pinnacle of I just want to keep doing this. And then you morph that into coaching, and you've been doing that, you know, on and off for about 15 years. And it's helped you shape a perspective, right, on coaching girls. Can you share a little bit about how some of those perspectives have developed and what some of those perspectives are?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I have I have a lot of opinions on that topic, right? Because I've had, I have always had male coaches. Okay. Right. Down to, you know, the dad in the neighborhood who volunteers to coach to my college coach, right? Always been men. Yeah. So being a woman and having the opportunity to coach, I was like determined to do things differently. And and I've had, and my my coaches were wonderful, right? There's I never had a coach where I was like, oh my gosh, this, you know, they're abusive or they're this or they're that. They were great. They all knew what they were doing. But I think it's one thing to be a man who's never played softball, who maybe knows the game, right? Very knowledgeable, sure, versus a woman who actually has played through all those things through the, you know, through her years. It's just different. Yeah. Right. And I just wish I would have had a woman coach at some point in my life. I didn't get to have that. So I'm gonna be that for them. Right. And I feel like there's this, because of my background, I bring a real trauma-informed coaching perspective because, in my opinion, I don't know everybody's home life, right? I get to know, especially the girls on my travel team, we spend a lot of time together. I know their parents, but no one knows what happens behind closed doors. That's right, right? So I might be their safe space, like somebody else was mine. And it can't hurt to treat every girl on your team in that way. Maybe softball isn't all their safe space, and that's fine. Right. It's not gonna hurt them for me to treat it like that, but I could be really helping somebody else. So I try to remember that when I get frustrated or angry, or you know, I'm a little being a little bit hard on them that like this might be the only positive adult interaction that some of them get today. And I'm not gonna ruin that for them. Right. And you can still, I think some people think, oh, girls need you're saying girls need to be treated nicer or softer or more that nope, nope, absolutely not. I'm still hard on them in the ways that I need to be hard on them in terms of their development and their growth, but you cannot coach girls the same as you can coach boys. And I say that with the caveat that I do not mean less than, I do not mean softer, I just mean different. Girls need to feel safe, they need confidence, they need to know that they can make mistakes. Whereas boys, yeah, you can you can yell, you know, yell at them like they're a football team and you're a drill sergeant, right? They some boys respond to that. Girls do not. It will break them down. I have seen it. I have tried, I mean, I've have learned this through experience, right? Like I tried to be the tough coach, you know, leave it all in the field, no emotions, don't cry. It it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Yeah, and I know that. Yeah. So they're allowed to cry, they're allowed to feel their feelings, but there's this, there's this understanding that you will all be accountable, you will all be respectful, you will all try, you will make a mistake because that's the way the game of baseball and softball is played. And life game of error. Right, right in life. In life, right? Yes. So, like that's what I'm trying to set them up to to have this healthy relationship with, whether it's a coach or a teacher or a professor or a boss or whoever they're coming in contact with for the rest of their lives, as women, they need to know when it's okay to speak up, when it's okay to make a mistake, what to tolerate from an adult, whether it's a man or a woman, right? These are life lessons. Absolutely. And I think a lot of my life lessons came from the sport of softball because I didn't have parents that could guide me in that way. They just weren't capable. So I'm gonna do that for them. It's it's it's honestly something I'm so passionate about. That like sometimes people get a lot of my male assistant coaches, I think, get a little frustrated with me sometimes because I'm not screaming at them and I'm not benching them for mistakes, and I'm not, you know, and I get it. I get where they're coming from. I do, but I think sometimes I need to take a step back and say, okay, they're nine. Okay, yeah, we're not winning the World Series right now. Right. These are nine-year-olds who are learning how to develop not only their skills, but their emotions and their mental game. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And we have to be here for them. And they need spaces to be able to do that. If we're gonna break cycles of upbringing with girls, they they need spaces where that can happen and that can be fostered. 100%. It fascinates me uh that that you talk about it like this because I know you know when we talked for background, I know I had mentioned like I had been involved in running youth and middle school sports for a really long time. And I have, I do have two boys and one girl. So we've done the gamut of you know, boys in sports and and my daughter as well. And my daughter is a high school girls lacrosse coach now, too. And it's one of the things that is interesting to me parenting somebody who's going through some of these coaching lessons as well, and she's starting to show where some of her frustrations are and how the girls get coached and girls in general, not even specific to her team, but just girls in general. And it is funny because it is one of the things that we've talked about. Like, I get upset when I feel like parents have lower expectations for their girls than they do for their boys, and it's like you have to be able to say they do need to be coached a little bit differently, and it doesn't mean that it's less than or that boys are better than because they can be coached a specific way. And I do think that we're like so far past time to start to recognize you know what that looks like for for girls.
SPEAKER_00And I recognize like when I say you can you can talk to boys like your drill sergeant, I I don't have I don't have boys. I've never coached boys, so I say that that's an assumption, right? Like these these boys may need to be coached this way too. I just that's not my wheelhouse. I just don't know. Yeah, um, I just it's from what I see. Yeah, that's all. And I see boys respond to things differently than girls. That's all. And you know, I only have girls, and I've only been on teams with girls, and I am a girl, so that's just what I know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because I do think that we need to shift how we coach boys too. Yeah, I'm sure we do. I'm sure I'm saying something horrendously like out of line, but of course, I know, but but I've watched it and I've watched it get extraordinarily toxic in a couple of the sports as well, and I do think that it needs to be a space for boys too. Of course, they have emotions just like the girls do. And they're taught to not have emotions, and girls are taught that they're too emotional, and so yeah, there there does, I think, need to be sort of this balance that we're not really fully approaching yet.
SPEAKER_00Just digging deep into kids in general who are that age, right? They're going through so many things developmentally. So many. Sports, sports is just a tiny little piece of the pie. Yeah, right. You know, I think parents sometimes when they see a kid maybe throw their helmet or roll their eyes, it's immediately they're disrespectful or they're emotional or they're or there's no crying in baseball. How many times do we hear that? Of course. And it's it's like, sure, on the surface it looks like disrespect. On the surface, it looks like maybe like, you know, immaturity. There's a reason why they're crying. They're crying because they feel like they've just disappointed you. Or they're, you know, or they've disappointed their dad in the stands who's screaming at them because they didn't have their eye on the ball, right? Like you have to take, you can't be a coach and not be self-aware. Right. And not take a step back and be like, all right, why is this person so upset? Right. Why did that person just throw their helmet? It's okay. You don't have to accept the behavior. I'm not saying it's okay to throw your helmet.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's the piece right there that I think like gets missing when people hear about, oh, we need to coach them differently. And it's like, nope, to your point.
SPEAKER_00You will not throw your helmet. Correct. You will not disrespect your coach or your teammate. Those things can stand while we still dig into why you're why they're doing it. Exactly. Not just yell at them and walk away. Exactly. Let them know you're here for them and this is a safe space, but we're still not going to do those things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The other interesting thing, I think, too, is because you are coaching at a certain age level. Have you coached older girls too? The oldest I've coached is 14. 14. Yeah. So I think one of the interesting things for me, too, has always been the statistics around, you know, a lot of times the drop in numbers once girls hit middle school across a bunch of the sports, you see that same drop in numbers when it comes to like STEM in school. So this is beyond just sports, right? I mean, this permeates other areas in a girl's life. Yep. And so I wonder if creating some of these spaces at a younger age will help mitigate some of that loss come middle school. We can only help. Right.
SPEAKER_00Because we know the stats, you know, I'm sure you've seen them, the stats of like, you know, this many percent of women leaders or CEOs played youth sports or were part of youth programs or whatever it was. We want more of that. Yeah. We want more women CEOs. Of course. We want, you know, women in leadership positions. Yes. And sports and other things like that make a difference. They play a role in that outcome. Yeah. So, like, why are, you know, why are we not putting our time and energy into this?
SPEAKER_01Right. It makes sense. Well, because we need people to actually step up and do it, and you're true. Doing that. True.
SPEAKER_00Volunteering, volunteering to coach youth sports is no walk in the dark. It is not. And not everyone can do it, and I, and I get it. No. Um, I'm grateful that I have the flexibility and the time to do it. And not everyone cares enough to do it.
SPEAKER_01And that's okay too. Yep. That's true. I also think, too, we're evolving, right? I mean, when I look back at what the world was like when I was playing youth sports, I mean, every parent just dropped off. Like you just dropped your kid off, you got them rides, like there, you didn't see parents in stands for practices, and you didn't see them getting overly invested in games. Like, and now I'm like, can you guys please go away? Because you're disrupting my practice. Exactly. I know right offering.
SPEAKER_00I need you to go sit in your car.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and I think that that's what started to happen. You started to get that whole generation of like helicopter parents who then showed up at everything and were so overly invested without necessarily the knowledge. But we also kind of, I think, went through a series of different sports as they emerged where we just needed warm bodies to coach the kids. It's like, how do you have a team? You've got all these girls who are interested. How do you then let them play if you don't have anybody to coach them? And so I'd like to think that there's a bit of an evolution and that now you're starting to get more people who are like, this was what this sport meant to me. And I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna, I'm gonna coach it because we need people who understand the game, are compassionate to the age level, etc. But I do think those they're like unicorns. They really are. It's really hard to find people like that who can't who have the ability to dedicate that much time. Yes, yeah. I know that's one of the the conversations that my daughter and I have had a bunch, which is like lacrosse has been in Western Pennsylvania for probably about 30 years now in a more organized fashion. And still the one of the biggest complaints is it's so hard to find quality coaching. Yeah. Even at like the high school level. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Hopefully that will change.
SPEAKER_01I hope so. I hope so. But but you are interestingly also working on a book right now that sort of talks about some of these things. Can you share a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah. My friend Katie, who is a licensed therapist and is helping me with the book. We're co-writing it. So she brings like that side, that perspective, that knowledge. Um, and then I bring the coaching softball kind of perspective to it. And I wanted to, I've been wanting to write a book for a very long time and I could kind of couldn't. Is it gonna be my life story? Is it gonna be about me? What's it gonna be? And and I I went through a lot of options and and landed on I want it to be something that's gonna help other people be better coaches.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Right? Like the conversation we were just having. We we want more people to feel confident in their ability to step up and coach people, right? So it's almost, I want to I don't want to call it a workbook, but it is a little bit of a workbook. So, you know, there's a couple chapters and it just dives in just a little bit as to why it's so important for me. Right. And why it's important to treat ever treat every player like it's their safe space, like everything we just talked about. And then it gives like just a little bit of like backup and stats from her perspective on like if you do this, this happens, right? You know, this part of the brain is triggered when you're yelled at, and this part of the brain is triggered when you allow them to hug you, and this, you know, all those type of things. And there's, you know, there's a little bit of chapters, a little bit of reading, and then there's almost like a checklist. Okay. Where you as a coach can go in and say, okay, like I'm working on myself this week as a coach, right? And being really self-aware and how I manage my emotions. Because if I'm in the dugout and I'm kicking dirt and throwing rocks and I'm all upset, I can't be there for, I'm not a safe space for them at that point. Right. And to say that I've never done that would be a lie, right? We all get really emotional and we're human. Yeah. Yes. But you have to be able to step back and be like, okay, what I'm doing right now is not okay. This is not good for the kids, or you know, and then there's like a chapter on apologizing to them, right? Like when you do make a mistake, they need to see that you're human and they need to say, Here I'm sorry, right? So that they do that to you and they do that to their teammates and they do that in life, right? So it's almost like something you can go back to. It's not a read once and put down. Okay. It's like it, it's like a working document almost. And then we like have some space for them to take notes. Yep. Maybe what did you take away from this chapter? What could you be doing better? What are you already doing that's great that you want to keep doing? Um, you know, what can you be working on? It's it's really meant to like go back to, okay, we had a really emotional game or I had this really tough time with this one player. Let me go back to this chapter and read about that. And maybe that will help me figure out what to do with this kid. Yeah. That was my goal. Okay. Um, so yeah, it's still in the works, not finished, but we're really excited about it. And you know my friend Katie also played softball, so she really knows it's just a good fit for us. Yeah. Really excited about it.
SPEAKER_01Is it more focused on softball or is it more focused on coaching in general?
SPEAKER_00So it's definitely focused on softball, but in in the book a few times, we're very clear that it's applicable to other sports. Okay. It's it is about girls, right? It's it's 100% about coaching girls. But I think the key takeaways can be applied to other sports as well. It's just the examples I'm giving, such as like throwing the helmet, throwing the bat, rolling your eyes, not paying attention. Those it's it they're all softball because that's my experience, and that's you know what I can relate to. But I definitely think that anybody coaching girls in any sport can take this book and use it.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah. One of the Things that you know, in hearing about all of all of the stuff, especially pertaining to the book, that I keep coming back to as a question in my mind is how do you then think about boundaries between you are the coach, they are not your children? Does that play in your mind at all? Do you have concerns when it comes to stuff like that? Or do you feel like, no, I feel like people put way too much stock in shit like that?
SPEAKER_00No, I think about it all the time, actually. And and one, because so I coach a rec team and I coach a travel team. So those are very different. One, the rec team, those are my my girls' neighbors and friends and schoolmates, and we know parents. Yes. So I feel more comfortable. Like I'm a very sarcastic person. So like me and my daughter have that like sarcastic banner where like a ball will go through her legs and she'll come in and I'll be like, great stop. Yeah. You know, like and she laughs and I laugh and that's it. And I know who I can say those things to on that team and who I can't, like whose parents are are in my backyard at the pool every night and we're joking around, right? Right. And with the travel team, it's a little different, right? Because those are girls from different schools. Those are parents I don't have that close of a relationship with, and they're investing a lot of time and money. That's right. So it's they definitely are treat, I'm I treat them a little bit more, I don't want to say professionally, but sure. More surface level where it's like I have to make sure I'm communicating things with them a lot more and being really transparent. Like, hey, yes, I did move your kid from short to second, and here's why. Whereas I can move them all around the rec team. And if I know if a mom has a question, she's gonna text me and ask me. Sure. Do you know what I mean? Or trust she knows me well enough to know that, like, whatever, you know. Right. Or hey, was my kid goofing off? Sit him on the bench, you know. Right. Yeah. It's different. So yeah, to answer your question, I guess it just depends on which environment I'm in. One is defin I wouldn't say one's more serious because I I treat them both with the same level of commitment and dedication, right? I want them both to be, they both get the best of me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00As a coach. Yeah. But I definitely coach them a little differently.
SPEAKER_01And do you have you had situations where parents have questioned or pushed back on your coaching style? 100%. Okay. With the travel team. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I will say that's because they are investing so much time and money into it. Sure. That it's easy to get emotional about it. Yeah. Right? Like, you know, rec team that's free and it's community and the kids with their friends and it's just for fun. You get a little, you're eh, whatever. Okay, my kid's at the bench. No big deal. But if I'm paying, you know, two, three thousand dollars for you to be on this team and my kids on the bench, I'm gonna have some questions. And I have some parents who are super respectful and have just shot me an email, like, hey, what do I need to work on with them? Which is great. I loved, I love when parents ask me that. Yeah. We're in the backyard, what should I be working on with them to get better? And then I have parents who I've had to excuse from our team because they are so disrespectful and say really outrageous things to me because their kid is not where they need to be, so they're not playing where they should be. And that's just, I think you're never gonna escape that.
SPEAKER_01No, for sure. I'm in fact, the running joke when my kids were playing sports, either competitive or just wreck, was always like, I'm gonna write a book about how not to be an asshole sports parent. Yeah. Because you're never going to get away from that.
SPEAKER_00No. For sure. You're not. And I and I get it because when my kid, you know, is on that high-level travel team and she's not doing her best, so she gets moved. I get upset. I'm the one moving her, and I get upset.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? Like she, you know, her butt will sit the bench if she's not doing well. Right. And it's my kid. I want her to do well. So I get it. I just feel like there's this level of respect. I don't get paid. I want to remind them, I don't get paid to do this. I'm here three, four days a week. My weekends are spent with your kids. I'm trying my hardest. I care deeply about each and every one of them. Yeah. Please don't call me names.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Right?
SPEAKER_00Or, you know, none of you are volunteering, and there's a reason for that. It's not easy. So just, you know, please feel free to always talk to me. I'm an open book. I feel like I'm very approachable. I'm not sure if everyone would agree with that, but I think I am. Sure. It's there just has to be some level of respect. And, you know, I've had people cross boundaries. I'm also the type of person that's like, I don't deal with a lot of BS. Yeah. You know, you come at me wrong once, we're gonna have a problem. And I'm gonna let you know what the standard is, what the expectation is. I'm gonna remind you of what's in the contract you sign. You can't abide by that, then I'm sorry you can't be on this team. Right. Right. I don't have time for that because nine-year-olds do not need to get caught up in that.
SPEAKER_01No, no, not at nine. Yeah. So I have some. Although I would argue not at 15, 16, like because it's not about you, parent. Right. It's about them. And how are we encouraging your girls to ask a coach in a respectful way, what do I need to work on? What do I need to be doing? How do I achieve this level? What level are you looking for? They need to be advocating for themselves.
SPEAKER_00And I say that to them all the time. And I've had a couple parents do, you know, encourage their children to ask me what they need to work on. And I love it. It's amazing when I can sit down with just a girl and say, hey, you know, like you, you know, your bat needs to get better. Or you need to work on back hands or you need to do whatever instead of the parent. I should be having those conversations with them. Because again, that's a life lesson. That's right. Your parent, you can't be in college having your parents call your college coach. And yet some do. Well, that's not true. I say you can't. You can, you shouldn't, you should not. But you know, I I've always had to advocate for myself because I never had parents who cared enough to call a coach to watch a game, let alone call a coach, and complain about something silly. So I think for me it comes a little bit second nature to just be the one that if something, if I want something said or done or I have a question, it's gonna be me asking it. Exactly. And I want that for them as well.
SPEAKER_01Of course. Outside of coaching style, as it pertains to things like that, like having to bench somebody or make some changes, or have you had any parents who've approached you about trauma-informed coaching style? Like as far as a boundary goes that way, has anybody approached you and said, not your job, not your place?
SPEAKER_00I'm not sure they know I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And not in this, not that I'm trying to keep it from anybody, but that's I think that's a good point. I think I disguise it pretty well. Okay. And I'll use one girl on one of my teams as an example, is is very clear that she, you know, first we were like, man, she's got a terrible attitude. She doesn't want to be here. What are we gonna do with her? And she's like, this amazing player. Like her skill level is off the charts. But we just couldn't like hone her in. We know some people who know some people, we got to talking, come to find out there's some things going on at home. Okay, we all sat, the four of us sat down. We need to change our approach with her. Tough love is not gonna work here because she's getting enough of it already. Right. So we really, and again, not we were not softer with her, we did not coddle her, but like, hey, how was your weekend? What are you doing fun today? How's school going? Yeah, making that connection with her where she was like, wow, these people actually care about me and not just how well I play.
SPEAKER_01You're fostering a trust, yes, you're building a foundation.
SPEAKER_00And I'm not sure they know that's what I'm doing. Okay, okay, and that's the whole point, right? Like, I don't want, I don't want these girls to think I feel bad for them because I know that you're going home to a yucky situation at this moment. Right. I want you to know that that's me all season long, right? Something going on at school, you want to sit down and talk about it before practice. If that's gonna help lighten the load, right, great, let's do it. That's what I'm here for. Like, so is maybe some of the girls know I'm doing it, but definitely the parents, they're not don't.
SPEAKER_01They're not even aware. Yeah. Okay, that's fair enough. And then are you dealing yet with ages where there is sort of the I hate calling it this, but unfortunately I think at older age levels you tend to see it anyway. But there's like the a cattiness that can happen with girls over time. Are you having to deal with friend drama, friend group drama? How does that impact what's happening on the field? And does that make your job with trauma-based coaching like any more difficult?
SPEAKER_00So that's a really timely question because up until probably the last two weekends, I have not because I feel like it doesn't get it doesn't get that way until they're like 10, 11, 12. Yeah, and that we're approaching it, right? I knew it was coming. Sure. I think on the travel team, it's easy because they're all from different schools. So they're not they're not coming in with clickiness already. Like we're friends and we're friends, and you know, they're all from different schools and they've really gelled. And I've tried really hard to create that culture. Yeah. And I think that I've done a pretty good job with that. And the other coaches are great too. The other, the other team, we're dealing with it a little bit now. Yeah we are, and I think that's because you know, you go to you go, you're in this class and you hang out with this person all the time. Well, you slept over at this person's house last night, so you're better friends, or we're going to the pool after this, who's coming? Well, I'm not coming because I don't like you, right? So I actually just said this morning to my neighbor on Wednesday we have practiced, and we're gonna have a little sit down and we're gonna talk about what it means to be a good teammate. So that is that's the trauma-informed shift. It's not you're mean to you, you're mean to you, stop it, be nice to each other. Right. Which is how I feel someone who's not really self-aware has that trauma-informed background, or maybe as a man, right, would approach that. Sure. Everyone's friends on the field, get along, be nice. Yeah. That's not no. Girls are gonna be like, okay, yeah, you know, yeah, um, we're gonna sit down and we're gonna dedicate a good 20 minutes to talk about what it means to be a good teammate. Do you all need to be best friends? No. But when you're on a team, whether it's a softball team, a basketball team, a team at work, a team at school, you have to respect each other, you have to speak to each other with kindness, and this is how we're gonna operate on this team. And if you can't do that, then you will not be on this team, right? So setting a really, really strong black and white expectation from them that this is how we talk to each other. Does that mean that we have to tolerate someone is being mean to you? I'm not saying you have to tolerate it, right? But here's how we're gonna handle it. Right. And here's the steps that we're gonna take. We're not yelling at each other, we're not calling names, we're not telling other people that they're not better, you know, I'm better at this position than you. I know it's not, so I'm gonna nip it in the butt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It, you know, we're gonna talk about being a good teammate. But again, I'm not gonna call people out and say, you're mean, you're mean, you're mean.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00It's not how you do things. You frame it in a way that we are all together as a team gonna learn how to be good teammates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Which I think, I mean, it just makes a lot of sense as you're saying it out loud. And I just think back to again, it was not the world I came from. I'm sure it was not really much of the world you came from either when you were playing when you were younger. There's definitely, and I still sometimes feel it, like as my daughter talks about some of her practices where I found myself getting like irritated because I'm like, there's no time for that on the field. Like, they need to leave that shit in the locker room and it doesn't come out on the field. So it is hard sometimes when that's what you experienced as well, to shed that mentality and to think about it a little bit differently. And what you're talking about is really like flipping a script. It's not, it's not changing every single thing about coaching, but it is flipping a perspective and thinking about it a little bit differently and coming at it maybe from a slightly different angle to just achieve a really like a better outcome.
SPEAKER_00Right. And if girls feel like they are a part of the solution, and I'm not just barking another order at them, they're gonna be more invested in in the outcome. Of course. If I'm like, if I'm sitting down on their level on the ground with them and we're talking about being a good teammate, they're a part of the conversation. Yeah. Tell me what you think a good teammate is. Tell me what you think. Like, it's this is a this is a team activity. This is not me standing up there telling you to be nice. Yeah, this is what a good teammate is. I'm gonna tell you. No, you tell me. You're on this team. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What do you what do you want to see in your teammates?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. How do you want them to treat you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because you're probably also gonna hear a little bit about some of the stuff that's been going on, just and what their answers are.
SPEAKER_00Of course. Like, and you have to listen. You can't just make an assumption because you heard one comment in a dugout that you know exactly what the dynamic is. You don't hear everything. There's 12 of them, one of you. That's right. You gotta listen. So when do you expect the book may come out? We're hoping within the next six months. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Or we're nearing the end here.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Yeah. And are you looking to just are you self-publishing? Are you doing like a hybrid situation? Right now, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're kind of like, it's time to make that decision right now. Yeah. Yeah. But the the content is done. Okay. Side sealed, delivered, like done. So it's all the other fun stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Have you thought about ways to turn the book into seminars, like coaching seminars? Is there going to be a like a companion-ish sort of seminar? We've talked about it.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um, you know, and I'm I'm pretty tapped into the softball world, so I think that I could make that happen. Yeah. There's a lot of facilities around here in Western PA who practice all year long, and there's a lot of coaches who I think could really benefit from it. So that is the long-term plan is to not just sell the book, but to really do a lot of follow-up in terms of how we can get people really engaged, allow up to ask us questions and bring specific scenarios to us that hopefully we can help with. Yeah, we got we got big plans.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_00But we're trying, again, just like the clothing business, we're trying to take baby steps here because this is new for both of us. Of course. And really just make sure that we're doing everything right along the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think that's really awesome. So let's shift gears back to the clothing business for a second. Sure. You launched, you launched already this month, right?
SPEAKER_00We launched um this week.
SPEAKER_01This week.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Yeah. Congratulations. I'm waiting to hear back from my website person today just to make sure the sample through went through correctly. And like, yeah. It's so exciting. It's like I get like a little bit of like knots in my stomach when I think about it because I'm so nervous. Sure. But I think because I'm so excited about it.
SPEAKER_01You don't get nervous about things that you don't care about. Well, I think that that's exactly right. I mean, you wouldn't be nervous if you weren't like totally passionate about it. Right. And you know, I mean, obviously you want to be successful with it, but I think the bigger thing is it's like you want to be successful in how you're modeling this whole thing for your daughter.
SPEAKER_00And for her teammates, and for her teammates. Because they're, I mean, they all feel the same way as her in terms of the options that are out there for them. So this is for all of them, really.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Before we wrap, I want to talk a little bit about photo shoot because you did photo shoot stuff for for the the business. Game on girl, right, is what it's called.
SPEAKER_00Game game on, comma, girl. So, like game on girls. Yes is like how you would say it. Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. Yeah, again. So the same girl who who connected me to Cass who did our stuff, she's a photographer. Okay. So she was like, I'm doing these photos. Like, I'm all in, let's do it. So we grabbed a couple girls that from different teams, different ages, different heights. We wanted to get, you know, a nice variety of girls to model the clothes, and we went to one of our local fields and we had so much fun. Yeah, so much fun. Like they, you they were like in their element, like just posing, and we had them like swinging and and pitching, and you know, we were actually throwing the balls to get action shots, and yeah, it was I'm so happy with the pictures. They're beautiful, and it really just captures not even about the clothes, it's about like their smiles and their hugging, and they're like, it's just you like this is how we want girls to feel yeah, like they belong and they should be wearing things like this because that's what they're into and they feel included. And yeah, I just I looked at them and I was just so happy when we got them back. They're so cool.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm so excited for you guys. This is so cool.
SPEAKER_00Um, what is the website? It's g-o-gapparel.com. So gameonggirlsaparel.com. We also have an Instagram, so check us out. All right, Instagram only, no Facebook. We have a Facebook, Instagram and Facebook. Um, we have a six talk, but I'm gonna, guys, I'm 39. So I'm struggling. I have some help from my cousin, but it's not as easy as it looks.
SPEAKER_01I I mean I can relate to that as well. And I'm doing it all my own.
SPEAKER_00Like I can't like hire a social media person at this point, maybe in the future. But right now I'm just like, how do I post this thing? I feel like such an old lady sometimes.
SPEAKER_01But you know, it's so funny. I will not even make myself feel like an old person. I like I get exactly what you're saying, but I think some of it for me is also just I don't want to spend my time. Yeah, it's not that I can't learn. Right, you're right. I can do all of those things, but it's like it's not a good use of my time. I'm not interested. And I'm not interested. Yeah, I'm I'm kind of in the same boat, even with the podcast. I've got a Facebook and an Instagram. I will post on threads too because meta has made it somewhat seamless, somewhat I'm gonna use that term loosely, yeah. But it makes it really rough to like put it elsewhere because it's then I'm like copying and pasting, or I have to do a totally different format and write. I'm just me. I'm not a production company, and so I totally get that.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think you can see that like if you go to the Instagram or you go to the Facebook, it's very clear that this is not like some sort of professional situation. Like it is me. And that was the goal, right? Is that like this is not like you know, you if you do look up softball clothing right now, if you were to go on a couple sites, will come up, but it's that like fast fashion cheat. You know, I've ordered some of it. You put in the washer once, it falls apart. And I want it to be very clear and obvious that this brand is not that, you know, like it is women-owned, women-made, women designed. Everyone who's touching it in any way down to the website is a woman. That's by design. Yes. We hand source this fabric, it is good quality, we have tested it, it is worth the money, it is not cheap. You know, you're supporting women when you do it. Like, I just want it to be very obvious that it's not just like this quick short, let's make some money first fashion stuff.
SPEAKER_01We're not taking it to a screen printer with like our, you know, this is basic T's and Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like this is legit. And we have put a lot of work and time and effort into it. And I don't want anyone to visit the website and think, well, this just looks like someone threw this up so they can make some money and they're just doing stuff in their basement. Like, nope, not the case. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm so excited for you. I can't wait to like follow up in a couple of months and just see how things are going. Yeah, we'll have to send you some stuff. Absolutely. Don't send it to me, I'll order it. It's fine. Perfect. I'll send you the link. Um, okay, so we're gonna wrap up with three good things about your week. Um, this is just something I have always done, like with my family at like big dinners and just as a way to like, you know, highlight positive stuff because there's enough negative in the world. So agreed. Rolling seven days. Gimme whatever made you happy, peaceful, content, excited.
SPEAKER_00I mean, all roads lead back to softball. So my we had a tournament this weekend, and the girls who they won no games their first tournament weekend, and this weekend we won three. Oh wow. So, and they had so much fun and it was so great, and it was just such a wonderful experience. So that's so cool. We're riding that high this Monday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have to come up with three. My gosh. Yeah. Um, okay. I am I will this, I don't know if this is good or not, but I'm excited about it. I am waiting to hear back from a job that I interviewed for. That is really good. Is softball related and very cool that I really want. So hopefully I won't regret saying that out loud and putting jinx on it. Um, so really excited about that this week. Yeah. Um, and my girls are home this week. No camps, no school, no, like we have all week to just soak up the summer and swim and hang out. And I'm gonna try really hard to just be present and spend some time with them before they go back to school. That's really awesome.
SPEAKER_01And it's it is kind of we're hitting that time of the summer where that's sort of the the feeling now is like, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like the countdown is on. Yeah. And I don't want it to be on yet. So before August comes, yeah, I just want to really just like soak in one on one time with them. Yeah. And we get to do that this week. So that's very cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you.