At My Kitchen Table
Welcome to At My Kitchen Table, a conversational, interview-y podcast where I have a good yap with a guest!
When I was growing up, the kitchen table was the conversation center in a lot of homes. At my grandparents' house, friends and family alike were welcomed with connection as much as with drinks and food. In my parents' house, that tradition continued as my siblings and I would post up and chat with my mom as she cooked or baked or tried to read a book (with much exasperation as we refused to shut up). I found cozy similarity at my friends' homes with their parents, too.
Keeping with tradition, I create a space for everyone who visits my table, where we get to share a little bit of our journeys together - roses, thorns, and stems.
Interested in recording your story with me? Email me at atmykitchentablepod@gmail.com!
At My Kitchen Table
ICYMI: S1E9 Victoria Ribeiro
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Hey Teabags! As you may know, I’m taking a little time off to steep! I’m on a short break for some relaxation and to prep new episodes for the Season 2 launch in September. While you wait to meet new guests and hear their stories, enjoy this re-release of Season 1 Episode 9 from November 5, 2025 with guest Victoria Ribeiro. Victoria talks about what it was like to be on the receiving end of online hate and vitriol that spilled into fear and intimidation in the real world.
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This week's small business spotlight is on Game On, Girls!
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Intro riff by Dale Lytle (concert husband).
All content edited (I use that term very loosely) by Karen Shaak.
This week is at my kitchen table is a mobile business about light and designed Game On Girls. Game on girls is a pizza programmed girls aborted apparel brand on a mission to help girls wear their confidence. Created by a softball player. Game on girls designs apparel that celebrates a female athlete and reminds every girl that she belongs in the game. You can find and follow them on Facebook and Instagram or have the collection and learn more at GodApparel.com. As you may know, I'm taking a little time off this video. I'm on a short break for some relaxation and to grab new episodes for the season two launch in September. While you wait to meet new guests and to hear the reservoir, enjoy this re-release of season one, episode nine from November 5th, 2025, with a guest at Victoria Rabiro. Victoria talks about what it was like to be on the receiving end of online hate in Victoria, and to build into fear and intimidation in the real world. It's Wednesday tea bags, and that means it's a time for a new episode. She's a connector of people, and she's a community builder who likes making the world around her better. Today we cover a pretty fraught chapter in her life when hate from keyboard warriors spilled over into real-world fear and intimidation, and even managed to make national news despite the fact that it was coming from a pretty small rural town. Despite all that, she hasn't given up on people, whereas I totally would have. I hope you enjoy my chat with Victoria. The first thing I will be cutting out.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. I'll give you something to do with your editing.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01There you go.
SPEAKER_00Hope you learn some more of the editing.
SPEAKER_01Sure, it's practice.
SPEAKER_00All right. So I'm gonna go ahead and just like jump in a little bit. Um, typically, how I like to start is to ask a person to just share a little bit of background about themselves, but I actually thought it would be interesting to start with the day we met because this still just gets me every time I think back in time um to the day we first met. For those of you who did not go to SHS, um, I met Vic the very first day of school, and it was the first day for for us of eighth grade, and the first words out of this person's mouth, I've not met any new friends at all, and I'm at the bus stop, and the first words out of her mouth was were, oh great, you're the new girl. Now they'll stop torturing me. And that was sort of like not just how I met you, but sort of how our friendship started. Um, so when you when you talk a little bit about yourself, uh, you have to include, you know, the information about when you moved there uh as well. Because that was that was like, oh Christ. And it did actually kick off like kind of a year or two of some pretty intense bullying for me. So I was like, oh shit, she went through two years of this already. That's insane.
SPEAKER_01Um dude, it middle school was torture for everybody, right? But it was like a special kind of hell moving to rural Pennsylvania, particularly coming from you know a well-populated, diverse area in New Jersey, um, and just like waking up one day and blinking and going, Why are there so many white people? Like, I don't I mean, I don't understand. It just didn't it was all very strange. And and yes, there was a tremendous amount of that classic Southern New York County bullying. And the the funny thing about that story is I have that exact same personality still. Like I I mean, for real, like uh I guess you know, 10-year-old or 11-year-old me is the same exact person as 51-year-old me, because I would I I could hear that coming out of my mouth today, like, oh good. Like now it's not just me. Now you're oh, you're in it too. Welcome.
SPEAKER_00Like exactly. It's great to have constancy in people in your friends.
SPEAKER_01Either that or I just haven't evolved at all.
SPEAKER_00Whatever. It's potato potato.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Um, if you could if you wouldn't mind, why don't you share a little bit about who you are?
SPEAKER_01That's a that's a big question. Um I'm just gonna relate it to my day yesterday. I went to the dentist, and the dentist asked me or said to me, Tell me a little bit about yourself. And I'm like, Well, that's rather broad. Like, can we narrow that down? Like, give me a topic and I'll elaborate on that. So it's just funny, like, I you know, it's in the classic job interview, like, tell me about yourself, and you, you know, you immediately go, Well, I worked at this, blah, blah, blah, and this, blah, blah, blah. But I I know the context of where this conversation is gonna go. That said, this is uh about how I move about the world and friendships and people and how I I connect and how that is basically my entire raison d'étwa. Like it's you know, it's um you know, uh about me. I I I'm a I'm a connector, I'm a people person. I love all the things that go with all the friends that I've made over many years and many places and many things. And I would like to say that that is probably the biggest thing about me is I want my epitaph to read friend. Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I would agree. That's that's pretty that is very broad but very true. Um, and absolutely one of the reasons why I wanted to chat with you. And yes, we will definitely dive into to some different parts of that and explore it a little bit, but you know, at heart, you are this massive connector of people. I have long admired your ability to build community, and it's what you do like almost everywhere you go, even starting with, I'm so glad you're here because now they'll torture you. What a weird way to build community, and yet here we are all these years later.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's also, you know, it's funny, it's like when you frame it that way, it's uh I I wish we could go back in time and remember what I actually said. Like, I know our versions of it, I'm sure, have morphed and changed, but I wonder if I said now they'll stop torturing me because I do, you know, of course I'm gonna frame the whole world around myself, you know, especially as a kid. Like, oh good, like you now serve purpose in my universe. Welcome, is sort of what I maybe meant in that moment, but also it was, yeah, let's make it about me.
SPEAKER_00It was just fun. I mean, I still look back on it with absolute fondness and hilarity because I get it. I mean, when you're the new person, it is really tough to make friends. And you've actually put yourself in situations where you're the new person in new spaces pretty consistently throughout your life. That just happened to be a time that it wasn't your choice. Happened to be a time that it wasn't my choice. Um, and there we were. But yeah, I feel like um that is that is just sort of the epitome of of who you are and and to your point, how you move about the world. Curiosity is actually, in my opinion, a huge driver of what makes a person a good connector. I and again, you're hands down a connector. So how like, do you feel like you're a very curious person? And what are the types of things sort of about people that make you curious?
SPEAKER_01That's it's it's great that you use the word curious because I would never characterize myself as curious. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, and I and I and I had to I had to think on that quite a bit. And I'm like, was I curious as a kid? Was I, you know, am I a curious adult? My my dad once said that I collected friends like people collect postage stamps. And I'm like, is that you know, is that curiosity or is that some other weird like compulsion? Um, I I I don't know what that is, but I I guess at the root of it, it is curious. I I like people, I especially like unique, interesting, strange, funny. If somebody's got, you know, an odd quirk or or something that's different, like I'm drawn to them right away. Like I really I want to know what's going on there. And sure, that is probably the definition of curiosity, but then it was like I never would have characterized myself as curious per se. That's interesting. Yeah, I know. I and I, you know, I was sort of rolling it around in my head when we were, you know, thinking about this conversation and um where we were gonna go. And and I I and I I would see how other people would find that to be curious, like that would be perceived as as curious. But I don't know that my my root of why I collect friends and why I have so many friends and why I keep them, and you know, if that's curiosity or if that's something else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like more maybe of um, I don't know, for lack of a better way to put it, like a defense against the moving around and the finding yourself in new spaces.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, that's really if I'm gonna go all in on the armchair self-psychology, it it is a defense, I think, to to some degree, a defense against the way I was raised. Uh you know, like I there was so much lack of curiosity in yeah, uh, you know, uh uh uh about me specifically, like nobody gives a shit. You know, like I was feral, left alone, like you know, so you gotta find your right, you gotta find your own way and you know, figure it out. And how do you make those connections when no, you know, the the the folks above don't really connect? Um yeah, that's fair. Yeah, and I also like my my dad, you you know, as great as my father was, like the man didn't leave the house. Like that's you know, I mean, yeah, I that terrified me. Like that guy was so closed in and walled off, and you know, his whole world had to come to him. And I was like, I don't want to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you became like the absolute opposite of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I gotta fight that, and I gotta, you know, and those are I'm I mean, that's genetically. I'm I certainly know I'm predisposed to to being that way. So it's you know, it's a conscious fight of you know, do I choose curiosity that to combat, you know, the inner demons that were given to me? Sure, I bet I do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That's fair. So what I'm gonna do is kind of skip ahead a little bit. So Vic and I obviously went to middle school. We finished middle school and high school together. Um, then college happens, and post-college, you end up in Las Vegas. And actually, I don't think I've ever talked to you about what led you to there. Uh, I happen to know a lot more about what led you back. Um, but if you want to maybe kind of talk about that for a minute, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_01I'll give you the journey. When I got out of college, I went back to Southern York County, Pennsylvania, where it was not the land of opportunity. Um, you know, and I have this vague degree. And I was like, I gotta go figure out how to go make an adult life for myself and not work in a mall. And um, and so I moved to New Orleans, you know, at the invitation of one of my college friends. And I got there and got my ass handed to me in the big city, and I didn't last four months down there, and I had to make a choice which parent was I going to cry to. And it was dad who, you know, was the obvious choice for comfort and you know, care and financial well-being and uh stability, or my mother, who lived in Las Vegas at the time, who I did not have a particularly healthy relationship with, who, you know, Vegas is filled with opportunity. It was a growing city. Uh, I had a degree in media communications and you know, I had experience in, you know, television, video, blah, blah, blah. It's what I wanted to do is get into entertainment. And I was, it was the obvious choice. I have to choose the parent that I I don't like that much. You know, I'm not going to be as welcome. Um, not that I don't like my mother, but it was, you know, uh, we're complicated people.
SPEAKER_00Um yes, that was so I chose the best, most succinct, polite way to put that. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we're we have complicated relationships. And uh, and so I chose that route, you know, and even though I got my ass handed to me in Vegas for a little while, I was able to to get a foot in the door in entertainment out there, and so I stayed for 15 years before 14 and a half before returning back to Pennsylvania. And I know that's the story you you know most, but it was you know, if I'll just keep going. Yeah, no, keep going. I'll get us back to PA and then and then you can have a question again. No, that's okay. Perfect. So I uh I I knew I was coming to the end of or I ended a relationship. I was dating somebody that was totally not right for me, and dating in Las Vegas in your 30s without having any major, at least, you know, at that point in time, massive addiction or problem or whatever. Uh it was slim pickens out there. And you know, it was I always said I was at the time I was sober, smart, and single, and that is no way to be in your 30s in Las Vegas because there's nobody else there. Like the dating pool was like two other people, and finding it was like, do I really like that person? No. So I gotta go. You know, the impetus of getting out of there was that. And I also knew I was about to break up with a job that was also super duper toxic. So I called a friend of mine who traveled the world and I said, you know, hey, I can go, I can go anywhere, I can be wherever I want to be. And you know, I've have all these cities in mind and these places to go and things to see. And she said, Go home. She goes, you go home and you ground yourself. She goes, get six months, go see your dad, go where your roots are, you know, shake it off for a hot minute, and then you can decide where to go after that. She goes, but go center yourself first. She goes, that's the move. And um, and I did that, and I went home and I had zero expectation of staying there for any length of time.
SPEAKER_00And um, yeah, and then I had my little love story and fell in love and got married and ended up in Glen Rock for another 15 years, which is really interesting advice given that the saying sort of goes like you can never go back home. And so it was, I think, a really interesting move. And yes, I know you're kind of glossing over the love story and staying for another 15 years, but but those were big moves making the decision to to sort of stay and to be near your dad, and yes, of course, marrying your husband. But the other thing that you did that I found really interesting too was when you decided, yep, I'm I'm staying, this is now what I'm going to do, and then you created your own business. And again, kind of going back to that whole, you're just this community builder and connector, that's just what you set out to do. Can you talk a little bit about how you made that decision and how did you go about just sort of creating these connections in your it wasn't my decision, so it was almost an accident, right?
SPEAKER_01So I I left the toxic job and I went to go work for somebody that had I had worked for in the past, but I was a freelancer. So I had this contract gig, um, which gave me the ability to pick up other contract gigs. And so I was like, if I'm gonna live in Glen Rock, Pennsylvania, I have to get involved in something, especially if I'm gonna be working remotely for this other contractor. Like I have no sense of community, I'm not going to an office. I've lost all of the conveniences of Las Vegas and all of the things to do that go along with living in a city like that that's just chock-filled with entertainment. It was a huge whiplash. So I said, I gotta go get involved in something. I gotta find something to do. So um I started going, I think I started it like I went to a rec board meeting. Um uh yeah, I'm sorry, I have to do my own time in my head. I'm like, did I start like which came first? Chicken or the egg? Did I start with rec board or did I start? And it was rec board because I started to raise money for the dog park, and that's how I got involved in the town. I knew someone was working on it, somebody else connected me with the person who was raising money for the dog park. I started doing that, and then I connected with the owners of the restaurant in town, uh, the Glen Rock Millen, Terry and Cindy. And so they started like, oh, you do marketing. Can you help us with this? Can you help us with this? And so I just started helping uh and and Terry's I really appreciated his vision. He was a huge Glenrock booster, and he always had really big ideas, but I I've always enjoyed being around big idea people because they're the kinds of people who don't put one foot in front of the other as well. And you know, my great purpose in work has always been finding big idea people and then helping them, you know, eat that elephant one bite at a time. Like I'm create that vision. Yep. So Terry always had like, hey, I want to create this venue space out of the ruins. Can you help me program it and turn it into, you know, instead of this blighted, empty, graffitied hole in town, can you help make it a vibrant space? And so, you know, I would help with restaurant stuff, I would help with creating this, these community events. We talked about let's do an arts festival at this time of year, let's do a beer festival at this time of year, let's do um farmers markets. And then, you know, I kept involved with the park. And so somebody else was like, you should really get to know what's going on even further. And the more I got introduced to people, the more people were like, Oh, wait, you do marketing? So that's when Terry was like, Why don't you just create an agency? Like what incorporate, like create an LLC. And then I went back to my primary client and I was like, Do you care? Like, if I do this, I said, not that you can because I'm a freelancer, you can't stop me, but you know, I'm gonna be doing other things, and it kind of snowballed. And so, next thing you knew, I had this agency that just sort of popped up. And I it was about three years after I got there that I I incorporated created the LLC and started actively building my own thing, yeah. Um, which was pretty cool for well while it lasted.
SPEAKER_00No, it was it was very cool, and I think what's interesting about that is almost like your intro into local politics dovetailed with starting the business. So that was an accident, like all of it was an accident. Yes, yes, and no. I mean, the reality is community is politics in a lot of ways. I mean, whether you're attending, you know, an actual town council meeting or getting yourself active on council, all the things that you're describing are things that help better a space, better a community space. And so unfortunately, that also kind of means like you're you're being a little bit political. And I think as a marketing professional, you're you learn to be political even outside of the scope of what we consider traditional politics. And so it is just really interesting to hear how sort of the start of your business also was sort of like, oh, you can see where the roots of some of this stuff began. But that being said, when did you like sort of more formally officially get involved in the town's politics?
SPEAKER_01It was right around the time I'm that's why I had to sort of mentally put together the timeline which came first there. It was almost right at the same time that I was building my business that I ended up on council. And I just and I think I went to a meeting. I I know I brought Jason, my husband, and his family with me, which is super weird, to go just sit in the audience for one of the meetings. Cause I I think as the dog park, I there was pushback on the dog park, which I thought was interesting. Like, why wouldn't you want a dog park? Like, you know, not I mean, I don't, I don't look, I get it. I don't even go to the dog park. But but is it a good community amenity that other people like? Yeah, totally. Like it's you know, it's great. So anyway, I think I went to a council meeting because of, you know, like starting these events and getting more involved and wanting to do, you know, Arts and Brewfest. And so I went to the actual council meeting. Those are the folks that you know get to make the final decision. And I just kind of wanted to hear what was going on. And there's nobody there. Like it was, you know, 30 folding chairs in the ambulance building, and it's me and Jason and his parents are the only people in the audience, and you could see like the the council whose seven people, the borough secretary and the works guy, they were looking at us like we had two heads. Like, what are you guys even doing here? Like, we're not used to having an audience. Like it was very strange. And so afterwards, I got a phone call from one of the council members. It's like, if oh, actually, it was this I went to the next meeting by myself. And they're like, Okay, you've now come to two meetings. Who are you and what do you want? And if you're gonna come to the meetings, you might as well like run for council and just be here in because they have openings all the time. Like, so I was like, Oh, okay, I guess. Like, what does that mean? And so I ended up getting appointed, and it was right around the same time that like I was building the business. So I'm like, well, this has got to be good. Like it, you know, I'll have I'll have a say-so in what's going on in the community, I'll be able to help move these events forward, you know, from the inside, which is really cool because it it only all the things we were doing were, you know, the Glen Rock Mill in and the ruins are the center of the whole town, and at the time, pretty much the only thing other than a convenience store and a bank. I mean, if you're gonna do something in town, that's the way to do it, and these are the people that get it done. So, yeah, it all sort of just happened like like it snowballed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That's also really it's a couple of things about that story are super interesting to me. One is just the fact that how small is your town when they get a little bit weirded out that you show up to a meeting two meetings in a row? Yeah, that's it's a little bit insane.
SPEAKER_012200 people, yeah. So the the neighborhood. I live in now is 2200 homes, and the town is like 30 or 40,000 people, and they only have four council members here versus the seven for the town of 2200 that I came from, which is bananas.
SPEAKER_00It really truly is. But I also think the other interesting point here is that I think there are a number of people who get involved in politics to make a difference for reasons, right? For more, I think, broad political reasons. And in this case, you really were just trying to be involved, build a business, make the town, you know, attractive to outside people to want to come and do things, right? I think when you're a town and you have one, you know, really nice restaurant, you want to make it a destination. And so there's a you want to draw people in. And that was sort of the how I read it, sort of the impetus of you.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I didn't come to that council with any political agenda uh other than like, what can I do to be better in the community, or what can I do to help, you know, to help keep Glenrock on the map. Because it's a that Glen Rock's a sleepy town that you know got devastated in in the 70s by you know Hurricane Agnes. And, you know, it there wasn't there's there is now um mu much going for it. And except that restaurant, and you you know, it's like let's figure out how to make this place better for everybody that's living here and create turn it into a little bit of a destination to give it a new identity and help it, you know, stay afloat. Yep.
SPEAKER_00For and also just for the listener, can you give an approximation of time frame? So, you know, when I hear you say things like I wasn't, you know, I was not working in an office, that wasn't because of anything COVID-related. This all predates like COVID.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I was I was remote, geez, uh since 2007, even when I lived in Las Vegas, I never really worked in a direct I did work in an office for like a hot minute, but it's it didn't make sense for me to sit in one space. So I just sort of free-floated and worked from laptops and coffee shops and backstages and wherever, you know, it'd bounce between warehouses and stuff like that. So, you know, I when I got hired by the um exhibition company, they had exhibitions all over the country, but I was still, you know, hired basically to go back and forth to Vegas to continue to manage that. Right. Um, you know, and I'm still totally connected to Vegas, you know, remotely after all these years. But this is too, I moved back in 2011. The business was started officially in September of 2014, and I'm pretty sure I was on council like 2014 as well. Like I was appointed to council. I it might even be earlier than that. Like I might the council might have predated, I'd have to go like look it up. But I I I had done, I'd been elected twice, appointed once. So I mean, I was there for you know over 10 years.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. So in the time that you were on the council and prior to you know, the story that you're going to tell today, um, about the whole tap stabacle, where like where were you as far as getting along with council members? Like, did you have did you run into you did you run into like major issues within the town?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I had so the the president of council when I first started, it was all white, male, mostly military, all Republican. I was the only Democrat, only female, definitely no military. So, I mean, I brought a very, very different voice to that table. And I did butt heads with the first president of council. Um, but we squashed that pretty quickly. Like it he didn't like my my tone. He didn't like the way that I approached um certain topics. Uh, he certainly didn't like you know some of the opinions that I brought to the table. And being that he was, I want to see it was yeah, he was a colonel, he he would shout me down and gavel me. And I was like, that's not the way this is gonna work. Like, we have seven equal voices at this table, and you don't get to do that to me. And and I I was smart enough to pull him aside into a one-on-one and have that conversation rather than challenge that out, you know, in the open in a meeting. I I mean, clearly I was frustrated in the meetings, but I did pull him aside and I was like, let me remind you that this is how this process works. And you are not my superior. Just because you hold the gavel, I can go buy a gavel, which I just did for you know, reference. You know, I got my own. Anyone can have one, like we could two can play that game, but it's you just because you have it doesn't mean that you can squash my voice. My voice is equal to yours at this table, and I need you to recognize that. And and I that earned a lot of respect. And I did not get that behavior from him at the table after that, which was good. And most of the time we had normal spirited discussions, like the topics that came up where we didn't agree. I mean, it's Glen Rock, Pennsylvania. What are we arguing about? Like ordinances, parking, you know, beautification committees, like not nothing was really that out of the ordinary until it was. Yeah. Yeah, and and and until it became no bueno.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I'm actually glad that you use that instance to highlight the fact of you know being able to talk to somebody and work out a potential difference because part of community building, it's great when you say it like, oh, my friend is this community builder, and it sounds grand and wonderful and lovely, but part of building community is conflict resolution. It is we're not all gonna see eye to eye. It doesn't mean my voice is bigger than yours or yours is bigger than mine. And so, how do we come together and create, you know, a path forward where we're all sort of respectful of each other's faces and opinions, but really kind of doing what is right for the benefit of the town, which to your point is.
SPEAKER_01It's so nice when you say it like that because I know where the story goes. Yeah. And the lesson that I learned, and I'm gonna skip all the way to the end. Go for it. The lesson I learned is the polar opposite of everything you just said. And and it it is a wild twist in that you think that you can you can resolve conflict through intelligent debate. And I I don't know where everybody in the world sits right now, but the way I see it, um, that doesn't happen very often anymore.
SPEAKER_00Not anymore.
SPEAKER_01No, no, reasonable intelligent debate. That I was right at the forefront of the end of that. Yes. And I I had to process what was happening in real time and ended up learning the worst lesson is you fight fire with fire and you shout some shit down. And you know, I mean, it woof like that. That was it was an uncomfortable truth where I was like, oh no, like all of the worst tactics are the ones that actually work. Like, yeah, this is horrendous.
SPEAKER_00We've we've created, we've created a scenario that is just totally different from how I think most of us operated prior to. And you're and that's again why I want to have this conversation too, is like when we talked about this, that was one of the things that you had pointed out where you were like, you know, it is really important to to create time and place for when some of this stuff went down because we really were in a situation where it was the the not even the beginning of some of those things happening, but almost like kind of in the middle of it, but in the middle of what you're now seeing on a grander scale in the world, you were starting to see in your own backyard, but in a spot where it hurts the most because it's your home, it's your town and it's your home.
SPEAKER_01And so and it was so against everything what we were trying to do. Like it all we were trying to do was like put on some nice events and make the town a better place, and you know, like get the neighbors to get along and holy cow, like that was a huge FU. Yeah, you were not going to do that, and this is gonna go really poorly for you in this one topic because of this hot bed and you know the way people exchange ideas now.
SPEAKER_00It is not discourse, it's not discourse, that is correct. So let's go back a little bit to when when did the taps issue? I'm just for the listener, I'm gonna keep calling it that. You'll get to why in a bit. But when did the taps issue come to the forefront for you?
SPEAKER_01April 2016. Yeah, yeah, never gonna forget it. Uh, if anybody ever wants to go read through the council minutes, knock yourselves out. A uh a woman came to the council meeting, and it is relevant that it is a black woman came to the council meeting from Baltimore area, which is a thorn in the side of southern York County. The southern York County white folks don't like when people come up into their backyard and tell them how to live. And uh she said, There's a guy in my neighborhood playing taps. And of course, we all know about it because you can hear it for miles. And when you do not live next door to it, it's charming. People love it. Like I get it. But he's playing it from a loudspeaker, a 32-foot pole with three stadium loudspeakers attached to it. Uh, he's on the top of the hill, and you can literally hear it for miles. Yeah, it is the woman who lived directly next door to him came down and said, I just want him to turn it down. I've approached him directly. He has told me he will pray for me. He's told me that I need to get over it. I want to uh invoke the noise ordinance. And so she came to council and said, I I want you to compel him to turn it down using this uh legislative tool. And so sadly, that legislative tool, this is in April, it reads really vague. And it's it said uh to a person of reasonable sensibilities, and there was no actual limitation of volume, there was no decibel limit. There it just said to a person of reasonable sensitivities. And all of the white male military folks on the council, and sadly, me included, when I read it, I was like, that is it's too vague to slap him with, you know, like a real fine. Like we just have to appeal to him as an individual to turn it down. Like that's the right course of action. We're not gonna be able to send this guy a letter based on the verbiage in this ordinance because of the way that was, because she technically was the the men had argued her husband had died. Um, he was military, they played taps at his funeral. She had extenuating circumstances that led her to be particularly uniquely affected by that that thing. And so we went to him as a counsel and said, Hey, turn it down. And that's when shit went wild.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Like before we get to went wild. Yeah. I think it's also super important to let everybody know that it he it wasn't just like a thing he did every now and again. It was every night and it was at the same time.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_01Yep, every single solitary night. 8 p.m. 7.58 directly before the church bells. Yep. So and people would then that's also a correlation that people would make. Well, we can have the church bells, but we can't have this, or we can have the train whistle, but we can't have this. Well, that's somebody who moved into the neighborhood and decided it was he was going to impose this, his his promise he made to God to play taps every night from a loudspeaker on a recording. He's not out there with a bugle, right? Like he's on a timer, he goes on vacation, that shit plays every night, and it blasts into the neighbor's house. And I and I and I took issue in that moment with the person of reasonable sensitivities, and I'm like, I'll bet she's not the only one that doesn't like it. But because it's so popular by anybody who doesn't live directly next door to this guy, nobody's gonna speak up. Yeah, and that that guy went, so his name is Josh Corney. Um I even hate saying his name is such a douche. That's just real. Yeah, yeah. Well, he he went to social media and reminder that the town is 2,200 people. And he went to a group that was 30,000 people, the Southern New York County Facebook page, and put out an appeal before anybody had said just because of the threat of using the ordinance against him, got his attention that the neighbor had complained to counsel using the ordinance. And so he put out an appeal, and it was like, I made a promise to God, and I if I made it back alive from Afghanistan that I would um, you know, or wherever the hell he was, I would play this every night. And it started with him with a boom box on his porch, which was fine, nobody cared because it wasn't the volume, it's not the taps that's bothering us, it's the volume. Yes, you know, you could play it in a boom box on your front porch, you're not bothering, you know, miles and miles and miles of people, and you're not blasting it into their living rooms unnecessarily every night against their will. So anyway, he had just this wave of support. And on one of the comment threads in there, I was like, oh no. I saw someone who had sort of lightly capitulated and said, like, I don't love it. And but said it in a sweet enough way that I sent them a private note. I'm like, you live next door, don't you? Like, you hate this, don't you? And they were like, Yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of us that do, but we're totally terrified to speak up because you can see like the mob mentality jumped all over. So I I ended up piping up like two meetings later, and I said, You know, there's other people who hate this. Yeah, we should figure out a way to change the ordinance to give it some teeth. Yeah, but he's not gonna turn it down.
SPEAKER_00Like no, and it's super weird too when people use the excuses of, well, there's the train whistle. Yep, train whistles exist as a warning, it's like an alarm that the train is coming through. Those mean a thing, and they don't happen at the same time every day necessarily, at least not in.
SPEAKER_01And if you move next to a train track, expect that you're gonna have that. And so one of the arguments about this woman who made the complaint was, Oh, you know how they are when they come up from the city, which actually that is the exact quote that was given by our chief of police, which was absolutely alarming. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? Wow, he goes, Well, you know, yeah, when the urban people come into the country and they say that they want this, I'm like, Oh, it's not like she moved next to a farm and is complaining about cows. Right. She moved into a quiet neighborhood and some dude put up a loudspeaker next to her house. Right. Like, not the same, pal. Also, like, you know, I'm I can I can see, I can see your racism here. Like, what's that about? Yeah, you know, yeah, and you know, and that's where they kept going to the person of reasonable sensitivities. She's not a person of reasonable sensitivities. I'm like, that's that's because she's just one person. Hold on, I bet there's other people of reasonable sensitivities that can corroborate that they also do not like this. And so how did you go about yeah that's where I became that's that I became the firestorm because I'm the one that's just like you became tied to yeah, because I went and found the other people and they were like, please speak up for us, and so I did, and and then all focus came at me, and you know, that that became the story.
SPEAKER_00So talk a little bit about because we'll get back to the story because that plays out over a very, very long time. It does, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It started in April of 16 and we got him to shut it off in November of 19. That's that was a three-year fight. Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00That's so nuts. So, but talk a little bit about some of the things that started happening in your immediate world, right? So, because it doesn't, it goes beyond just that one Facebook group, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh god, yeah. It I it blew up. Like when I when I brought it to the meeting, he had rallied so much support that that that meeting where I was going to speak about it and ended up not speaking about it until we could regroup. There were hundreds of people, like all those empty chairs. I walked in and I mean I it gives me chills just thinking about it. It was terrifying. Yeah, because they were all like the pitchforks were out, man. They were coming for us. And I was like, wait, what? Like, guys, we just want him to turn it down. And he he had rallied all of this support for him to keep playing it at this volume, and nobody was listening to the meat of the discussion, which is we just want you to turn it down, yeah. Like, or just play it on holidays, or like, let's find a compromise where your neighbor you're not torturing your neighbor, right?
SPEAKER_00And were these were the hundred people who shut up for the meeting, were they residents?
SPEAKER_01Um, most most of them at that point were not. We had to start making rules for the meetings that any like people could come, but they couldn't speak unless they were a verified resident of the municipality.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, just because it was out of hand. Um, and these meetings would go on forever with people just complaining about, oh, I had this, you know, person in the military that I love and I love to hear taps. And I'm like, that's nice. Do you live next door? You know, do do you it what what if it was the call to prayer five times a day at 80 decibels in your living room that you couldn't get away from? How would you feel about that? Like, let's talk about the actual thing here. Like everybody was stuck in the ideology of it's taps and you hate the military. And so that became the narrative. And you're like, wait, what? How is that the narrative, people? And we would try to bring it around, and and the folks just weren't having it. So, no, like that those meetings for a long time were packed, like people were coming in, you know. If it if that hit the agenda, boom, like everybody would show up. And and they were it was an angry mob of don't turn it down. It's like, but you don't live next door. This isn't about you. Yeah, and this isn't about the it's not about the content, it's about the volume. Yeah. Um, and and that was just not getting across. And the the meeting where we we didn't discuss it, we regrouped, had to do a town hall, had to do it in a bigger um venue because we knew there were so many more people coming. People organized a motorcycle brigade to intimidate me against talking about it. So, like there was, you know, uh I don't know, I ended up being a dud, which is hilarious. Um, you know, but but I'd say, you know, maybe 30 bikes showed up, you know, it wasn't the hundreds that were threatened, but you know, like, oh, I'm sorry, you're calling in the bikers to come and like ride past my personal home in town as an intimidation tactic. Like, what's that about? So yeah, like Jason started coming to meetings with me because he's like, somebody's gonna shoot you. Yeah, and I mean, and then and then it got really bad in July, it was July 4th of 2017, that Josh Corney went on a national syndicated talk radio station and flat out lied that he was playing a bugle and and that yeah, and that he was doing it. It was insanity. And I that's when I had to shut down my website, they wrote letters to my businesses. Um, you're my clients, um, threatening that that they had to boycott me. And I'm like, I'm not the complainant, I'm merely the voice on counsel saying we have to have better ordinances so this shit doesn't happen. Yeah, like it was it, yeah, that was that was the crazy trajectory. That's where it took all the way off, and then like people rooting through your trash, like showing up, you know, there's drones over your house. You're like, what is going on?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So it the thing is, is you know, I know you were saying before like the motorcycle parade past your house, and it ended up being a dud. And yes, it's hilarious in retrospect, but at the retrospect, at the time it was very much not. And you know, and I obviously I don't live near you, but was the recipient of a lot of these discussions, and I mean, I can tell you I was actively afraid for you guys. Oh, yeah, you ended up taking some some defensive tactics as well. You installed cameras and things like that. Um, and then obviously, of course, Jason going to to council meetings with you. Armed. Yeah, armed. Exactly. Right. Which is in also insane. It's insane.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah, well, he he he did not realize. So, because a lot of this played out on social media, um, and he was not at the time not particularly active on social media, he didn't realize the extent to which it was really bad. Uh, the 4th of July was an eye-opener when he saw and I started showing him that people were sending me death threats. And and it was, it was just it was so crazy. And it definitely affected my mental well-being for quite some time. Because I, you know, I'm trying, like, do I take the high road? What do I do? Like, from from and the solicitor and you know, other people I talked to, like, this is it's crisis PR. So, you know, you don't like. I think we put out one press release, and then I stopped engaging in social media. I stopped trying to defend it because it'd just get worse. Right. I'm like, I don't, I don't know how to do this correctly. Like, I've never been in a situation that was this aggressive and hateful. And so, you know, I mean, I think I sat silent for about 10 months um and just let it come at me and just dealt with the really big things the best way I could. But like going to the grocery store became probably one of the most triggering things. Like, because now all of a sudden everyone knew who I was and I didn't know who they were. And the vast majority of the people who knew me hated me for no reason. And so, like, I would get, you know, the the looks and the whispers, and people would snap at me in the grocery store, and I'd be like, Who the fuck are you? Like, I don't even fucking know you. So, like, I got real weird about like, I'm not going, I'm I'm gonna go shop in York or I'm gonna go shop in Hunt Valley, like I'm gonna stay out of Southern York County, like I'm I'm here to get in and out of Glen Rock, I'm not going to events, like, you know, and it sucked. Like it was everything that I had been working to build now was making me scared and uncomfortable. And people were super shitty to me. And thank God for the folks at the mill, like they were like, Yeah, we don't give a fuck. Because I none of my clients let me go. All my clients were like, Fuck all your haters. Like, yeah, uh, we're we're on Team Vic. And I'm like, Well, thanks. But now I've got to get I have to hire a person to go be my social media face. Because once my name is out there and I'm connected to your business. Business, I can't promote you directly. Like it can't be my business name, it can't be this. So, like I had a workaround who's still a good friend, thankfully, and still works with me. Thankfully, she's absolute godsend delight, Sarah. But she, because I knew she was untouchable. Everyone in the community universally loves her and she's a super amazing. And I'm like, I need Sarah to help me. I need her, yeah, I need I need her to be my face. And thankfully, you know, she's she has taken like the her and Allie and uh of at the grocery store, those are the people that took the ball and absolutely ran with everything in Glenarch, way above and beyond what I could have ever done, anyway. Those guys really are super duper for that town.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Talk a little bit about some of the other things though that kind of came your way, because you know, I think it's a really it's interesting, of course, but it's also terrifying when you think about how quickly everything devolved and the difference between online vitriol, which is like to your point, you're like, I stepped away from it for like 10 months, but it's what happens when the online bullshit coalesces in your real life spaces. And so you're talking about, you know, manage managing how you're going grocery shopping, etc. Yes, you received death threats, a lot of which were online, but then there were other things that were happening in the town directly about you, like um people spray painting shit at the ruins, like things of that nature.
SPEAKER_01But you know, that that didn't really happen. Um, I mean, like people would just write taps or something like that.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't know that it was about I thought there was a specific thing I that you had said at one point. It was because your name was spray painting.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there there might have been at one point or another. Those things disappeared really quickly, and a lot of it is uh, you know, I think for my own mental well-being, I've I've compartmentalized a lot of what happened. Gotcha and forget like your your memory of what I may have said back then is probably better than mine because I went I went we're both in trouble.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean a lot of that stuff since it's been, you know, it's been a while now. Yeah. And you know, I've put some of it look in a box. You have to. You have to trauma, it was traumatizing. Yeah. Uh I I I do know, you know, it got real mail. Like I had, you know, a very specific group of people sending letters to my clients, and I had to send cease and desists, you know, going out, going out to like my my favorite restaurant. Like I would sit there and I'd be like, fuck, these people are here. Like, I don't want to sit and eat with them. Like, I don't I don't even want to be in the same room. Yeah, like I just want to get out of here. And it made me feel unsafe, you know. And I, you know, I certainly didn't like like walking around my neighborhood. I would somebody would post online, like, I just saw that cunt walking in my neighborhood, and I'd you know, I'd see it. And I'm like, what are you watching me? Like, is are all of my moves being followed and tracked? Like, this is crazy. Like, I can't even leave my house.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I think it's, I mean, it speaks to just the level with which people are just online way too much, probably. Um, that that that's sort of the the level that they got to. I also think one of the things for me when you would tell me about some of these things that would happen and people saying shit about you online was the occasions where you could tie them to actual real people. So one of the things that I mean, and it's not 2200 exactly.
SPEAKER_01You get to figure out who these people are.
SPEAKER_00Well, for sure. But I mean, even just some of the people that you know like went to school with us, and suddenly you're like, oh my god, you're pointing a finger at me as if to say, I have a problem with God and country, and I hate the military. And it's like we fucking went to the same school together. Like, I used to see your dumbass every fucking day. And it's so it's so jarring when you when you do get to see them in real life and in real time. Yeah. And that they're not just like a faceless, nameless handle online. These are actually people who live in your area that you thought you knew. Um, that it was eye-opening.
SPEAKER_01Like it's it's a friendship sweep. Like you just go, Oh, hey, I you're not actually anywhere near a friend. Like you're out of here. The the tables turned in the in the in the most interesting way, and this is where you know I I said I'm gonna skip to the end earlier, is when I stopped being silent. Yes. I started the keyboard warrior back. Yes. I would take their own screenshots. I kept screenshots of everything, and I would I created an Instagram, or actually, Jason created the page and I took it over. I mean, he was mean, but I was meaner. Um, and I and I just decided like I'm not gonna tolerate it. Here's your screenshot, I'm gonna tag your employer, I'm gonna also post your criminal record to go along with it. This is what you said, like this is the and turn about is fair play. Like if we're gonna play this game online, let's rock and roll, because I don't have a whole lot of skeletons. Yeah, like you're not gonna hurt me in any real way. And those folks in real life, when they would come to the meeting and you would confront them to their faces and you would open your mouth, would shrink and you go, Oh, like now I I know how to take the power back. Right. Like I'm hiding from keyboard warriors, but in real life, these keyboard warriors, the minute you get in their face and you tell them to fuck all the way off, they fuck all the way off because they're terrified. They don't want that coming back at them. Turnabout is fair play. Yes. And that was the that was where the table started to turn when I when I was like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna fight back. I'm gonna I'm gonna grow a spine, I'm gonna go out the front door, and I'm gonna look these people in the eye and tell them they're fuck faces. And you know, yeah, like that was effective.
SPEAKER_00It was it it oddly enough. Um, it I don't know, now like with where we are now, it doesn't feel odd at all. It feels like, well, duh, that makes a ton of sense. But at the time, because you're like trying trying to take the high road and you're trying to be like I was still trying to reason with the voice of reason. Exactly, exactly. So that's sort of when things started to to take a turn for the better for you in a way. What was going on though with the actual like fact of the taps? Because there were some interesting things I thought that I don't know if it was you specifically or other people in the town, but you kind of dug up some information on Josh and sent some letters to because he was active, right? Like he was we were talking about somebody who was like a retired military.
SPEAKER_01Active military would stand in his dress whites for the cameras, uh, which was against his whatever codes of conduct. Um, so you know, anytime he did something like that, we would, you know, send it to his superiors. He joined council, which is 100% against the Hatch Act. Um, so we got him removed from council like to try and protect his own interests and get himself a vote at the table. Then he tried to get all of his friends and family on council, um, which was fun because I got to bully them off of council. Um for that's when I was piping up, and I was like, great, like if I'm just gonna embrace my inner bully, let's rock and roll. Like, we're not gonna have you stack the cards, you know, the deck against you know, these people who have a reasonable complaint. It's not gonna happen. And so it ended up like council voted in better ordinances. Oh, he went and got the ACLU on his side. Fun fact ACLU does not have any kind of uh volume limit, so technically it's just free speech. Yeah, it's just we were like free speech at what volume? And they're like, your ordinances aren't strong enough to fight the First Amendment. And I was like, wait, what? Like in this tiny town, like we can't regulate our own volume, like you can, but your ordinances suck enough that we win. Like, yeah, I was like, Oh my god, you're on the wrong side of this. This is so weird, because you know, yeah, I love me some ACLU, right? Right.
SPEAKER_00You start to count on them for some specific things, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and also like in the event you win your lawsuit against the ACLU, which is wildly heavily funded, the ACLU, you they will never have to pay your legal fees. So they can bury you financially. And our tiny town, like, forget it. There was no fighting that we could we couldn't even go up against it. Right. So we were just trying to still just reason with everyone, like, hey, look, we're gonna rewrite our ordinances, we're gonna, you know, like do this so that it's stronger, so that we don't have these kind of problems with other people. And then we also got absurd, and the neighbors started to speak for themselves as well and pipe up. And one of them was bold enough, right next door to the guy, to start blasting his music at eight o'clock every night at the same time and just say, Hey man, so you can play this this game. That was effective, that was wildly effective. Um, like, okay, like we're gonna play Barbie Girl at eight o'clock tonight, we're gonna play Stairway to Heaven, like whatever, like and at this at the same volumes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um you guys at one point, didn't you and Jason like buy a decibel meter?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, it's it's around here somewhere at the level of somewhere. I have a decibel meter, and we would go out and record it and show, like on the Southern Air County screenshot page, like this is how loud it is in the living room next door. And we also bought megaphones. Um, so we could stand there and you know, yell things at him. Again, two can play that game. Turnabout is fair play. Let's do this. Like, if we're gonna do this, let's if if the town is going to be this divided, let's blow it all the way the fuck up until it crumbles to nothing and can be rebuilt. Like I hate I hate it that that was effective, but man, it worked.
SPEAKER_00Like I remember you struggled, you just struggled with so much of that at the time that it was happening because you were like, I don't even know. Oh, it's the right thing. And Jason is very much like, oh no, it's the right thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Jason was the devil on my shoulder. Like he was the devil on my shoulder going, no, no, like you we're gonna fight. We're gonna fight hard and we're gonna fight using their tactics. But yeah, he was doing all kinds of things to violate. He ended up leaving the military, going into private practice, or he just became a private citizen. And he moved his first of all, he was a carpet bagger. Like, that's even the worst. Like, he didn't grow up there, he didn't have a tie to the place, he bought like the biggest house in town. People, it was so bizarre, like the worship that people had for this dumb guy that was just terrorizing his neighbors, yeah. Um for his own selfish interest. It was so it was so bizarre. And he ended up only living there for five years, wrecked the town in the five years that he was there for his cause, yeah. Um, and then moved to Dubai with his family as a private citizen in the military, like private intelligence. And now I think he lives somewhere in like Pittsburgh or something, but it was just like what great what are you guys doing? Like you're you're wrecking a whole town for this asshole who all he's doing is unreasonably terrorizing his neighbors for his own self-interest. Like, what is wrong with you? Yeah, also that feels a lot like Donald J. Trump, but like I mean, here we are. Like, this is this is and it's classic narcissism, like, and people get sucked into that cult of narcissistic personality that that's the whole town is under this weird spell.
SPEAKER_00It's it's so tied to identity, and it we've and that's like a whole separate episode, but it you cannot reason with somebody who is so dug in on something that they believe is so important to how they identify, and that he hit on a couple of different ones, right? He hit on the anti-military folks and got them on on board. He hit on the well, the as soon as you said the church bell tie in, I was like, oh, okay, so that's part of the whole you hate God and whatever.
SPEAKER_01I hate our country, I hate God, every you know, anybody who doesn't support this is automatically over there. I'm like, no, I just don't support terrorizing your neighbor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01You know, I want the quiet enjoyment of my own home. I don't want you blasting something in there at eight o'clock every night. I didn't move to a military base, the military base moved itself into my private neighborhood. Right.
SPEAKER_00Like, well, but also that's even weird too, because the military base doesn't just play taps randomly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you get revelie in the morning, yeah. But that's a military base. Like you get revelie in the morning and you get taps at night. Like that's what happens. Gotcha. Um, and here I thought it's not a military base. It's one person who decided on his own that he was going to be the loudest person in town.
SPEAKER_00Well, and the thing is, is again, like I go back to the very simplest thing, which is cool if you made a pact with God, then play it in your house, my dude. Correct. What are we doing? Like, that's your pact. That's not anybody else's pact. You're imposing your will on other people. So when he was a when he finally stopped, was it because he ended up leaving and moving, or was it you guys able to get him to stop by updating the ordinances and yeah, it was a combination of those things.
SPEAKER_01Like we were able to update the ordinance, we were able to put an end date on it, you know. And it we had we had come up with multiple compromises in the middle that he just wouldn't agree to, like you can play it on Sundays and military holidays, or you know, and he just wasn't having it. So yeah, they just added some teeth to the ordinance, and then you know, he moved. Yeah, like that was it. Yeah, and you know, and and we also the town did agree to move it to the park, so that was a whole thing. We're gonna move it to the park, move the speakers to the park. So we're we're now taking this one person's quest and making it the whole town's identity. And so the council agreed to it. I didn't agree to it, like that I was opposed to it the whole time, but I'm I was outnumbered, so there's that was my vote. So they agreed to move it to the park at his expense. Like, if you want to do that and you want to move that forward, and he just they could him and his friends just couldn't get their shit together to provide the right like schematics to build that amphithection in in the park, and they just they never ever got it together. They they sent a I mean it's so comical. They came to the council with a colored pencil drawing of what they wanted to do. And I'm like, and where are the specs on that? Like, how does that what does that plug into? It's a pretty little picture. You drew a tree, isn't that cute? Like, what this is not what we are asking for. This is not equipment, this is not who's who's paying for the electricity, blah blah blah. Like, none of that. They just weren't able to do it, which is great because nobody really wanted it. Like, five people wanted it, the rest of the town wanted it all to just stop. Stop, just go away. It was years and years of stupidity, and then it reared in it, it ended in November of 2019, and there were a couple of assholes that would just randomly play it in town just for fun, just to to troll me, basically, or to troll the other neighbors, whatever, just to be assholes. Um, they have also one of them, the main ones, has since moved out of town, thanks to to Glen Rock. Good for Glen Rock, just trolls, just living human trolls. But then somebody started playing it again at the very beginning of COVID, and I piped up on that one online, and I was like, what the actual fuck is wrong with you? People are dying, and you want to play taps right every night, something that's played at funerals. Like, this is the most stressful time for some of these people. They're losing their relatives, it's scary as shit, and you want to revive this of all things, right? Shut the fuck up and go away for good. Leave Glenrock alone, yeah, give it some peace for a hot minute, especially right now, you know? So, and that was the end of it. Like that, that was the very, very end of it. It just finally sputtered all the way out.
SPEAKER_00It's just so insane. And I think when I think about all of it, and my god, there's so much stuff that you're probably not even saying because it was such a meaty, intense time, and it did last for such a long time, but it does take an incredible amount of resilience to kind of come back from that and and to engage still in your community, which I thought was amazing that that you you did. But was there anything from that time that you feel like made a lasting impression? I don't even want to say like triggering, but that impacted you in a way that you're like, yeah, unfortunately, because of that situation, I'm never gonna be the same.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I could say that about all of it. Like, I still look there's people who are still on council now just to fight whatever idea I brought up. Like it was it's so kooky. So I I I left council. I did not run for re-election after my second term. I just let it lapse and I was like, I'm gonna take a break. But I had a bunch of um grants that I had championed and wrote narratives for and brought to council that I helped foster through the system um that were awarded. And so there's a lot of big exciting things that are happening in Glen Rock in the next couple years that were sparked by things that I brought to the table and helped to, you know, get folks on board to do. Right. One of which is Krebs Park. It wasn't my idea, but somebody brought me the idea and I was like, oh, I can help find the funding for that and get the backers for it, and I know the people to talk to, and you know, we can get our engineers on board and we it fully funded nature park next to the stream. And there was there's a person who is currently on the council that went door to door to oppose the nature park that was fully funded just because it was affiliated with me. And I and and that it he would never say that, but anyone with half a brain that knows that situation absolutely is like, oh, there's no reason to oppose that except that she championed it.
SPEAKER_00Especially since once it's fully funded, to do a take backsee on that, you lose the funding. So it's not it's not like you can just go door to door and say, hey, that's not a great idea. We should be using this money for this other thing. There isn't this money because it's the grant was for this thing. Okay.
SPEAKER_01And and also, so that the the grant came back with higher engineering costs. Like, we can't afford it. I'm like, recast the grant. Like, go back to the which this is not a hard problem to solve. Like you go back and say, Hey, the the year between when we applied and when you awarded, things have changed. This is the way the budget fleshes out. We need you to we need to rearrange the way in which we wrote this grant. Can you approve? And they will sign off on it if it's a reasonable change to you know what you have. So the the the engineering cause is totally reasonable change. Like we'll pull out the bridge that we wanted to put in there because it was way more expensive than we thought it was gonna be. The grant's not gonna fund that piece, but the grant will still fund the whole nature park without this one component. Easy solve. This guy went door to door and said, we can't afford it, it's $200,000 more. Pull in a number straight out of his ass. Then we can afford it's gonna, it's gonna make your taxes go up, is what he was telling the town. You can use this money to help open the library, you cannot. It's like that is earmarked for this park. So it's just an ill-informed individual with a smear agenda. And so all these people come to the meeting, and I'm like, great, now I'm in the audience, and I'm not at the table anymore. So now I'm just sitting watching all these, you know, people who are now hoodwinked into believing this nonsense. They had to get re-educated in the meeting that that's not how this works. This is how you can solve this problem. And thankfully, the other members of council were reasonable enough to squash that guy's dum-dum.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, did you actually did you speak at that meeting?
SPEAKER_01Oh, no, I won't. Yeah, no, because as soon as I open my mouth, that that becomes then there's still people who like that are on at the table. Like, I could I could get other people to speak on my behalf, and it's way better. Like, don't don't use me as the messenger. That that automatically like people will shut down and vote against it just because I said something. Um, which is it's it's idiotic. And it's crazy because like the the new owner of the Glen Rock Million, thankfully kept me on board, has become a great friend. He spoke at that meeting, like his team spoke at that meeting. Former council members that you know were for the park spoke at that meeting. People who have that are more neutral than I am were able to deliver that message without me having to pipe up. Like, you know, I piped up online a little bit because I the you know, there's still an individual that the where the land where that park is has all of their junk on it. And I was like, Yeah, you have an agenda not to have the park because that's where you store your shit and the property doesn't belong to you, you know, and so it's just a funny exchange, which is it's 2025, right? The taps shut off in November of 2019, and in that online exchange, where I'm like, dude, you you you don't want the park there because that's where you store your shit. And he was like, Aren't you that taps lady? Oh my god. I was like, Yes, I'm that taps lady. I said, I am, I said the town is much quieter and nicer since I piped up then, and it's gonna be quieter and nicer when you get your shit off this property that doesn't belong to you, and we can have park. Like, yes, like yes, I'm still causing quote unquote trouble and fuck all the way off. Like everybody wants a nice park except you because it's you're using someone else's land for your junkyard, yeah. And way to bring up taps, you dum-dum.
SPEAKER_00Like all these years later. I but again, it's like it is such a weird time that we're living in, and that that is still what comes up, that is still how you get associated. It has made it so that you can't by yourself get anything done. You have to work through other people.
SPEAKER_01I'm literally championing millions of dollars in grants that are gonna filter into that town that will improve that town. Yep, and and it it is insane that it's you're that taps lady.
SPEAKER_00You're the taps lady.
SPEAKER_01What? Okay, cool, cool.
SPEAKER_00What's really fucked though is that I wonder if what's as nuts still goes through his life with like, oh, aren't you that taps guy? Like the guy who was on national TV. Yeah. National TV. I will never forget the day that you sent me. That link, and I was like, You've got to be fucking kidding me. This is what Glenrock PA gets on the map, the national stage for. Fucking hell.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, he he did a bunch of TV appearances actually. There was radio, TV, like, and I didn't do anything. Like, I did I meant one article at the very beginning where I was like, this guy is terrorizing his neighbors. Yeah, it's it and it's wild that my name stuck to it the whole time. And it's obvious. I'm the only woman, I'm the only Democrat, I got a big mouth, you know. And I s I mean, and I would I dared to oppose, you know, someone who was clearly being the most patriotic person alive, you know, which is insane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's insanity.
SPEAKER_01Such a false narrative.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it really was. Um, okay, so you are now not there anymore. You still figured out again, like, you know, you don't let shit hold you back, and you kind of created a new community and like in a place that you were visiting for vacation, and ultimately that community led you to deciding to move this summer. And do you plan to sort of get involved and start all over again? It's just like kind of how you're built.
SPEAKER_01No, it's no, I don't want to. I mean, am I built that way? Sure. Like, am I uh do I still keep my thumb on some of the stuff that's going on in Glenrock? Yeah, like I got a bunch of grants that are working through the system. I call the the president of council all the time. Like, where are we at with this? You know, I'll zoom into the meetings still. Uh I just went back to town. You know, it feels good. I I went back to town and I despite all of that, where I sound like I'm hated, like I definitely had people that were champions of the minus.
SPEAKER_00100%.
SPEAKER_01And that's pretty amazing. Like there's you know, the proprietor of the grocery store Allie. I mentioned her earlier. I got to see her when I was in town, the proprietor of the Glen Rock Million Brandon. I got to see him when I was in town. Like these are my friends, these are people who love that town with all their heart and soul, and they know I do too. Yes. And you know, I worked for the betterment of that space and I and I cared a lot. There's a new woman on council, she was part of the beautification committee that she's now on the council. I saw her when I was there, and I'm just so glad that she's a part of it because I like having, you know, a reasonable female voice at that table.
SPEAKER_00Of course.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, which is nice. Yeah, you know, especially when it's you know, it's a bunch of old white dudes, you know, running the joint. Um, yeah, it's kind of nice.
SPEAKER_00It is, and it's also I again, it's a testament to it's not just you, and I understand that. I know it it's it sounds like I'm just like all on board with Vic. I am, I'm always team Vic, but it's also the the coalition of folks that you ended up pulling together and that you built these friendships with, I think it's such a testament to them. Like, I when I come back and visit the area, I was typically staying with you. I was typically staying in Glenrock. Glenrock is not the town that either of us grew up in, right? We were we were in a neighboring town, and so I didn't spend a lot of time in Glen Rock when when we even when we were in school there. Like a couple of friends I I had that lived over there, but never spent any appreciable time in Glenrock.
SPEAKER_01But I will say part of that is also subjectively, this is not subjective at all. Yeah. Um, also sarcasm. Glenrock is the best of the towns in that, like, and I know you have you have come around. We grew up in Freedom, and Glen Rock was always the the bastard stepchild. That's what I was just getting to. It's the best of all of them. It's the best of them. It's got the most charming qualities, it's got the the the most heart, like it has great amenities, like but they're it's you know, it's non-commercial, it's got the coolest traditions, you know, it's got more, it's just got more heart.
SPEAKER_00It really does. I it's funny too, because one of the most charming things about Glen Rock was the thing that I like don't even think I ever participated in, which is the Glen Rock Caroling, like at holidays. The things that I think as kids we also didn't super appreciate were the things that as adults you kind of take a look, then you take a step back and look at the the towns that made up our school district, and you're like, oh no, that's actually the one that had like the most grit and the most, to your point, heart. And it it is, it's it's an extremely charming town. And I would say that the kind of group that you worked with, um, and I know a lot of these projects are still ongoing, but they work, they work really, really well. In fact, I would encourage anybody you know who's traveling.
SPEAKER_01To go to the Arts and Brew Fest, yeah, the first Saturday, first Saturday after Memorial Day is an absolute blast. And I'm so privileged that I was part of the initial committee for that. I worked, I think, four or five years on making that happen. That town goes from 2200 people to 5,000 people, and it's and it's always yeah, it's always a peaceful, easy, fun day of just hanging out, checking out the town, everybody's gathering, drinking some beers, looking at vendors, eating the foods. It's a it's a total street fest. It's it's a blast. It is, you know.
SPEAKER_00I would also say, too, if you're if you're anywhere near the area and have the time to take to go out of your way to stop and visit, I you know, I know Brandon didn't ask for a shout-out, but I'm giving it to him anyway. It's so good. The Glen Rock Millenni is a wonderful little gem of a destination restaurant. They've put so much.
SPEAKER_01Table 1837 is the restaurant. The Glen Rock Millenni is the inn, and I had the privilege of staying there just last week. Yeah, and I got to stay in the inn. It's charming. Yes, it's the food is fantastic. Food is fantastic. It is such a vibe. It's such a vibe.
SPEAKER_00It is, and it was awesome because it gave Glen Rock like this foodie spot. And I don't use that term, I I it's not ironic. Like it is, it is really delicious food. It is farm to table. They do such a fantastic job with it. And to be able to have that in the heart of your town and make your town a destination is I just think it's incredible. Um, and it is such a testament to to all the work that you guys have done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um taps be damned.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, forever grateful to Brandon. Forever grateful for that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm also, in a way, like I can look back on it now too, and and have always with the outsiders' lens is it really did, I think, in a lot of ways, showcase the love that that a large enough group of people have for that town and for each other. Like really just coming together and wanting to do better for your town. And the fact that you had so many people who were like, Yeah, I'm not, I'm not getting rid of you. We're still gonna be your client. I mean, that's just a a part of it. It was a large part of it, but that's just a part of it. You were able to kind of really keep a nice, solid group of all different people, right? They come, they were from all different areas and of like what they were professionally bringing to the table, even too. But you have like a really eclectic, amazing group of friends.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. I look, that's my it's my favorite quality about my own life. Yeah, because I have surrounded myself with incredible people. You really have. And I and I and I keep doing it, and I and I get to keep my friends my whole life, and that is such a privilege. And and I and I and I recognize like, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna sound humble in the slightest when I'm like, it's a gift. I'm I have I have a gift of being able to make a friend, keep a friend, you know, give a friend another friend, you know, like it's it's the that whole thing. And despite even going through this insane, you know, being blasted with hate, which I just never expected, you know, since the it was my whole my mantra was bring people together, not drive them apart, right? You know, it wasn't it wasn't the goal, but man, boy, did I get thrown in it? And despite all of that, I still I went back to town. I could I couldn't have felt more loved last week. It was so great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that. I'm really excited that you shared the story with me. And I'm just gonna tee it up here because I would love to do this again at some point with you. One thing, and I've said this to you directly, but I'll say it to anybody listening. Vic is an amazing storyteller, and she is one of those people who has lived like 15 lives in her 51 years. And so, oh my god, the stuff that she could talk about. I mean, we can make Vegas probably like a series. Yeah, I mean, you just you definitely have just some of the most interesting, hilarious, outlandish stories of like real things that have actually happened to you. Um, so would love to would love to continue.
SPEAKER_01I'm glad that we started with the most painful. Like halfway back, like I'm glad we got this one out of the way. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Because everything else from here is fun and gravy. It's like it's pretty light, yeah. So one of the things that I really like to make sure that I do with each of my guests is ask them to go over three good things about their week. I just do a rolling seven days, but I like to do it a little bit as a palette cleanse, as you know, just things that maybe you're grateful for or good things that had happened this week. Uh so would love if you could share your three good things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I got a lot of good things going on. I got way more than three good things.
SPEAKER_00Awesome.
SPEAKER_01We'll take them. But I'll I'll narrow it down. I'm having a good week. So uh, you know, we just moved to Bluffton, South Carolina into this lovely low country hamlet. And it's, you know, we've been here just two months, and Jason is has my husband has reinvented himself as a handyman. And um, this week he has worked every day this week, and uh he's enjoying it. Like it's super exciting last night to see him come home and in a he just was in a great mood and yeah, all kinds of exciting things to talk about his day. And it's just I'm very, very grateful that he is happy and he is working and he's loving it so far. Um, you know, also we have a full social calendar after only two months here. And so this week I get to go. It's so crazy. This Saturday, we scored tickets to this, it's the Bluffton Supper Soiree, where they shut down a street um in Old Town, uh Calhoun Street, and they put out a table for 150 people, and it's a four-course meal, and it kicks off their big arts and seafood festival. And I'm just I can't believe that we've been here five minutes and we scored one of the greatest, you know, tickets in town. Um, that apparently that thing sells out in like five minutes, and our our connections to this place are so connected that they're like, Oh, we have extras. Would you like to go? We're like, um, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that's that sounds like so much fun. And it's gonna be great. Not surprising at all because you're like a connector, she's a connector, and you guys are are making moves.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and we met the super connector down here. Like, it's I laugh. The the the woman that really is the impetus for us moving here is a woman named Glenda. Um, she was our Airbnb host three years ago, and we became friends. Glenda and Billy physically look like us 20 years, well, 10 years from now. They're few, they're they're future us. They're future Vic and Jason. It's so insane that they're future us. And they they really are, they're like carbon copies of who we are as people, kind of. Um, so and they're like, she's practically the mayor of this place. She's like the ultra concierge. It's it's like our hookups of our friendships are insane, it's so great. And then uh, I'll give you my third one is you know, on the heels of that with the Arts and Seafood Festival this upcoming weekend. I got my brother, my sister-in-law, and Randy all coming to visit. So we're gonna have a wonderful house full of people starting Wednesday to go enjoy this town that we've fallen in love with, and I get to show it off.
SPEAKER_00I love that so much. I love it so me too.
SPEAKER_01My like when I say I have so much going on, that's all good. Yeah, like those are just three of the many good things I have going on right now.
SPEAKER_00You're in such a good spot, my friend. I love that for you so much.
SPEAKER_01I love Ikea.
SPEAKER_00I cannot wait to make my way down there to visit you guys. I'm a little bit jealous that I won't be there at the same time as Big Brother Mark, but yeah, one of these days, man. One of these days we'll connect. Yeah, you're gonna love it. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01I I have every I have every um intention of dragging every single friend I have down here for yeah. You're you're all coming. Either you're gonna visit or you're gonna move here at some point. Lord knows maybe everything's going in.
SPEAKER_00I don't do big bugs or really humid weather, so I'll visit, but yeah, the humidity is a it's a killer.
SPEAKER_01We moved here in August.
SPEAKER_00Oof. It's just like the worst. It's rough. I know. So I keep telling you, I'm gonna come in maybe December or January when it's less likely to be super buggy and yeah.
SPEAKER_01Try to come, try to come when you can at least get on the boat, though. The boat is special.
SPEAKER_00Okay, you can boat year round down there though, can't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you're yeah, if you're not a pussy, yeah. No, you can boat year round.
SPEAKER_00I'm a pussy about bugs. I'm not a pussy about the boat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, don't worry.
SPEAKER_00I can handle cold.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we've got the bugs fairly well figured out. We got good spray.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. Well, thank you again. I appreciate this so much. You got it, friend.